Aug. 29, 2025

What If Every Argument Was a Chance to Get Closer?

What If Every Argument Was a Chance to Get Closer?
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Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon iHeartRadio podcast player icon Podcast Addict podcast player icon Deezer podcast player icon
Season 1

What happens when an engineer and a nurse discover their true calling as marriage coaches?

Meet Aaron and Jocelyn Freeman, the couple behind a relationship coaching movement that’s helped thousands of partners shift from surviving to thriving.

From almost breaking up after a gym date to building a coaching brand with nearly a million followers, their story is full of real-life lessons. They share how their own clashing conflict styles became the foundation for practical tools that couples can actually use, tools that go far beyond traditional therapy sessions.

Their message is simple but powerful: you don’t have to end your marriage, just the version of it that isn’t working. With honesty, humor, and wisdom, the Freemans remind us that relationships evolve and that reinvention is part of the journey.

Whether you’re dating, married, or somewhere in between, this episode will change how you think about love, conflict, and commitment.

Hit play now and subscribe for more conversations that help you build the relationships you really want.

00:00 - Meet the Freemans

05:44 - From Breakup Call to Marriage Coaches

18:10 - Coaching vs Therapy in Relationships

28:58 - Vulnerability and Communication in Marriage

39:53 - Creating Vision for Long-Term Success

50:12 - Behind the Social Media Success

01:00:34 - Intimacy and Relationship Dynamics

01:11:43 - Growing Through Challenges Together

WEBVTT

00:00:05.631 --> 00:00:06.974
Okay, so welcome to our podcast.

00:00:06.974 --> 00:00:12.932
This is a little bit different today, because this podcast is a spinoff of our radio show.

00:00:12.932 --> 00:00:25.705
Okay, so I don't really do an intro, but meet the Freemans.

00:00:26.007 --> 00:00:26.228
Hey.

00:00:26.408 --> 00:00:27.611
Thank you, welcome to our podcast.

00:00:27.611 --> 00:00:31.925
My friend Walter, co-hosting Walter, you guys, yes, so you guys have all known each other for a long time.

00:00:31.925 --> 00:00:32.728
I feel so left out.

00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:36.908
We've known each other for a really long time, really long time.

00:00:36.948 --> 00:00:37.631
Nine years yeah.

00:00:38.091 --> 00:00:40.646
Yeah, that, jerry, jerry Roberts.

00:00:41.067 --> 00:00:46.042
Writing a book yeah, barry Roberts, writing a book.

00:00:46.042 --> 00:00:52.706
It was early in our entrepreneur journey so we were learning like marketing strategies, and writing a book was one of them that we learned about and we met him and I mean we've seen each other evolve so much.

00:00:52.706 --> 00:00:55.692
He, I mean, we were brand new and so you've.

00:00:55.692 --> 00:00:56.442
You've believed us.

00:00:56.442 --> 00:00:57.685
You've always been a cheerleader for us.

00:00:58.287 --> 00:00:59.680
So how many books have you guys written?

00:01:00.383 --> 00:01:03.691
Well, one was like a self-published style, so like a mini book.

00:01:03.691 --> 00:01:10.370
Then our first official book where it was done through a publisher was called the Argument Hangover, or is called the Argument Hangover.

00:01:10.370 --> 00:01:13.207
We just got a book deal with Penguin Random House.

00:01:13.409 --> 00:01:14.745
Oh, wow, and so that will be coming out next.

00:01:14.745 --> 00:01:16.606
Yeah, we haven't announced the title, thank you.

00:01:16.606 --> 00:01:20.143
So you guys are marriage therapists, couples therapists.

00:01:20.162 --> 00:01:20.903
Marriage coaches.

00:01:20.963 --> 00:01:21.644
Marriage coaches.

00:01:21.644 --> 00:01:26.891
So what's the difference between a therapist and a coach and that whole deal?

00:01:26.990 --> 00:01:29.653
Well, first off, coaches can say a lot more than therapists.

00:01:29.653 --> 00:01:32.137
Therapists have a lot of rules.

00:01:32.137 --> 00:01:37.468
They can get in trouble, right with certain things, whereas as coaches we can say anything we want to someone.

00:01:37.468 --> 00:01:38.831
So there's a lot more freedom.

00:01:38.831 --> 00:01:40.527
But it's also just the focus right.

00:01:40.527 --> 00:01:50.462
A lot of couples will come to us after trying therapy and there are some great therapists, by the way.

00:01:50.462 --> 00:01:56.162
We're not at all trying to discredit that but they'll say we sat on the couch and we vented and ended up arguing right, we just walked out arguing, we didn't get tools, we didn't get skills.

00:01:56.162 --> 00:02:03.668
So, coaches, if you think about athletics too right, they're going to challenge you, they're going to tell you what you need to practice, what you need to do differently.

00:02:03.668 --> 00:02:08.957
So we really equip couples with tools, skills, so people find it really effective.

00:02:09.377 --> 00:02:10.600
We enjoy it how long?

00:02:10.600 --> 00:02:11.724
Like what's your credibility?

00:02:11.724 --> 00:02:13.793
What makes you guys be who you are like?

00:02:13.793 --> 00:02:17.090
Why do people want, like a lot of you say, like sports, like athletes?

00:02:17.090 --> 00:02:23.027
Like my sons play basketball, they have coaches, they have trainers and their trainers also train nba players.

00:02:23.027 --> 00:02:25.873
Their trainers also got Division I athletes.

00:02:25.873 --> 00:02:28.027
You know, like, what's the background for you guys?

00:02:28.741 --> 00:02:30.627
Well, we both have our master's in psychology.

00:02:30.627 --> 00:02:31.471
Well, that's enough.

00:02:31.901 --> 00:02:34.060
And then we created an accredited program.

00:02:34.521 --> 00:02:39.829
So we have a whole curriculum and it's in the proof right, it's in the number of couples that we've worked with Well you guys are huge.

00:02:39.979 --> 00:02:42.044
I've only heard fantastic things about you guys.

00:02:42.064 --> 00:02:49.030
Yeah, but if you think about going back to when we first met, I remember you were like we want to be couples coaches.

00:02:49.320 --> 00:02:52.425
I'm like yeah, they weren't couples coaches then.

00:02:52.760 --> 00:02:55.527
They were, but they virtually had no following.

00:02:55.527 --> 00:02:56.591
It was just a vision.

00:02:56.751 --> 00:02:56.972
Right.

00:02:57.401 --> 00:03:03.542
And I'm like well, that's interesting, you never want to rain on anybody's parade, but fast forward.

00:03:03.542 --> 00:03:07.092
Describe the size of your scope today.

00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:16.750
Yeah, we're almost at a million followers, and I mean our podcast ranks consistently in the top and got this great big book deal.

00:03:16.750 --> 00:03:20.580
Penguin Random House is calling it like one of their lead titles for 2027.

00:03:20.820 --> 00:03:28.689
So it is interesting though, because, if you think about it, just a couple years ago we had hardly any following, so we had our baby.

00:03:28.689 --> 00:03:39.548
She's almost four, but at the time we had a newborn and we almost lost everything, so we made a couple investments that we weren't very strategic about, and they all failed at once.

00:03:39.548 --> 00:03:48.051
We literally were down to dollars, and we had this newborn baby smaller following, and now where we are I mean, that's the cool thing about life, right?

00:03:48.051 --> 00:03:50.175
You can never really know what's coming.

00:03:50.175 --> 00:03:52.340
It's just mind blowing to see where we're going.

00:03:52.481 --> 00:04:01.854
So when you say, you guys lost everything, I also have to just give credit, because this guy sitting right here was one of the key players that helped us avoid disaster.

00:04:01.854 --> 00:04:03.980
Well, how Well.

00:04:03.980 --> 00:04:07.723
That's his world, right, like our world is marriage, but his world is real estate.

00:04:07.783 --> 00:04:09.286
He just called me and said I'm on fire.

00:04:09.286 --> 00:04:19.235
Yeah, we just kind of stepped in and I said here's what's going to happen, here's what's happening, and just kind of helped him through a difficult time like I would really do for anything.

00:04:19.254 --> 00:04:20.036
Like financial advice.

00:04:31.220 --> 00:04:35.168
Well, they were in a real estate transaction that was, that was going bad, in a hurry and okay, and those have a way of compounding on themselves.

00:04:35.168 --> 00:04:52.961
Um, but the thing that you guys, you have this message and you have a very unique way of communicating and you're all self-taught, so what's what's really just in inspirational to me is how you went from zero but you just kept at it and you had a vision and you never wavered Not for.

00:04:52.961 --> 00:04:55.771
And then all of a sudden, you know here you are.

00:04:55.771 --> 00:05:08.375
So I think, for people listening, it's such a great example of just have a vision and stick to it, no matter what and then hone that what.

00:05:08.435 --> 00:05:09.422
What were the steps like?

00:05:09.422 --> 00:05:10.185
How did you do that?

00:05:10.185 --> 00:05:11.752
How do you get to a million followers?

00:05:12.173 --> 00:05:14.963
well, I would say, definitely the consistency right.

00:05:14.963 --> 00:05:18.692
We were creating content, even when it was just a few people watching.

00:05:18.692 --> 00:05:24.471
So it was a message, it was something we were inspired by and I I think it was the why, and people talk a lot about that.

00:05:24.471 --> 00:05:37.990
Right, have your why, but for me, I would run through a wall for this, and it really stems from my experience growing up and watching my parents divorce and I think I just really care about marriages.

00:05:37.990 --> 00:05:41.670
I care about families staying together, and not just staying together but thriving.

00:05:41.670 --> 00:05:47.904
So it's really like this fire that stems from being a child and not having a voice.

00:05:47.904 --> 00:05:51.281
And now I have a voice and now I can make a difference and I can impact people.

00:05:51.281 --> 00:05:55.711
So it's not like a niche that I just am like, well, it's a good idea.

00:05:55.711 --> 00:05:57.163
It's like, no, this is my purpose.

00:05:57.163 --> 00:06:10.509
And then, obviously, we're passionate about marriage because we had such different experiences growing up and so we just really love being able to have couples understand what they learned growing up, but what they can create.

00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:12.567
So you're a child of divorce, Are you as well?

00:06:12.567 --> 00:06:12.687
Aaron?

00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:16.483
No, my parents are still together, 47 years.

00:06:16.483 --> 00:06:29.086
So coming up on that 50-year mark, and it's funny because not only are we writing about the challenge that we went through in 2022, how you helped us, but our backgrounds like our new book coming in a year is going to have all these stories in it.

00:06:29.086 --> 00:06:35.312
My parents are still together, but there's really no better upbringing.

00:06:35.312 --> 00:06:43.653
I mean, you know you can get into trauma and you can have tragedy happen, but you could look at my upbringing and my parents are Christian.

00:06:43.653 --> 00:06:45.502
I went to a Christianian school k through 12.

00:06:45.502 --> 00:06:55.144
My dad quit a corporate job uh, when I was in like fourth grade to teach at our school and be at the sporting events that me and my brother were at.

00:06:55.144 --> 00:06:56.047
So he was always there.

00:06:56.047 --> 00:06:59.163
So on the surface, that's like a good childhood.

00:06:59.803 --> 00:07:04.461
I also never saw my parents argue one time didn't mean that they didn't, it was just I didn't see it.

00:07:04.461 --> 00:07:09.192
And so whenever there was tension with my parents, it was like communication immediately stopped.

00:07:09.192 --> 00:07:16.947
There was a pause, my dad would be the one walking out of the room and the next thing I know that we're just playing in the yard, playing kickball or playing basketball or whatever.

00:07:16.947 --> 00:07:20.882
So that becomes the my emotional home.

00:07:20.882 --> 00:07:22.848
That becomes what I know in relationships.

00:07:22.848 --> 00:07:25.112
So when I get well, there's a longer story.

00:07:25.112 --> 00:07:32.014
I mean, I'm broken up with most of my adult life and relationships don't work out and I get cheated on a few times.

00:07:32.014 --> 00:07:35.523
So I start to convince myself that I'm not even meant for marriage at all.

00:07:35.523 --> 00:07:43.353
I meet Jocelyn at LA Fitness Literally.

00:07:43.392 --> 00:07:43.853
Love the gym.

00:07:43.874 --> 00:07:44.613
Love the gym.

00:07:44.613 --> 00:07:46.357
Wait that new one.

00:07:46.396 --> 00:07:48.939
How long have you guys been married?

00:07:48.939 --> 00:07:50.125
This was an older one.

00:07:50.740 --> 00:07:53.206
And actually our anniversary is in two weeks.

00:07:53.206 --> 00:07:54.108
We'll be married 10 years.

00:07:54.449 --> 00:07:57.666
Oh, wow, okay wait, you're talking about the Biltmore LA Fitness, the one that's got the pool and the roof.

00:07:58.480 --> 00:07:59.625
So that's Lifetime?

00:07:59.625 --> 00:08:01.502
Oh, that's Lifetime, the earlier one.

00:08:01.622 --> 00:08:09.889
Oh, it's torn down now it's, I think, probably so you know I met her, we exchanged emails wait, walk me through that.

00:08:09.889 --> 00:08:10.833
Are you lifting weights?

00:08:10.833 --> 00:08:12.880
Do you go to her and flirt with her like how they?

00:08:12.901 --> 00:08:15.307
had a curl bar rack and she has a tattoo on her back.

00:08:15.307 --> 00:08:21.711
So when she went to grab a curl bar, funny enough and I was like sitting on the ground and I'm like I gotta go talk to her.

00:08:21.711 --> 00:08:26.000
But I've always failed trying to approach women, especially at the gym and then.

00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:28.069
So this time I just was much more authentic.

00:08:28.069 --> 00:08:30.627
I even got an email, but what did you say?

00:08:32.280 --> 00:08:35.826
My name's Aaron, basically, I mean you know, it was just very authentic.

00:08:35.826 --> 00:08:40.041
He didn't have like a pickup line and I think that's what made me talk to him, was?

00:08:40.041 --> 00:08:42.462
He was, I think, literally just like hey, I'm Aaron, what's your name?

00:08:42.543 --> 00:08:46.365
And he was like curls for the girls Not with him.

00:08:46.465 --> 00:08:47.346
But I saw him.

00:08:47.346 --> 00:08:49.067
I mean, I was eyeing him too.

00:08:49.386 --> 00:08:50.128
Okay, wait.

00:08:50.128 --> 00:08:52.149
What's the tattoo on your back?

00:08:52.308 --> 00:08:54.289
It's lotus flowers and cherry blossoms.

00:08:54.570 --> 00:08:55.331
Is it lower back?

00:08:55.551 --> 00:08:57.351
It's the top quarter.

00:08:57.631 --> 00:08:57.892
Wow.

00:08:57.932 --> 00:09:05.856
Yeah, and so, yeah, he was just sweet and I loved that he asked for my email address instead of my phone number it was smooth.

00:09:06.597 --> 00:09:07.738
Let me ask you this it was safer for me.

00:09:07.738 --> 00:09:14.086
That was the day before asking for Instagram Are you close with your mother?

00:09:14.941 --> 00:09:16.005
Not in particular.

00:09:16.005 --> 00:09:26.293
So yeah, going back to that story, it was you know, what I witnessed is what I witnessed, and so we get together and it's not like any of my history is now magically gone, right.

00:09:26.293 --> 00:09:31.513
So she becomes more interested in me quicker than is comfortable.

00:09:31.513 --> 00:09:33.085
So I actually tried to break up with her.

00:09:33.085 --> 00:09:39.070
Oh, wow, and that was on the phone, and so we actually hung up the phone and she called right back.

00:09:39.070 --> 00:09:43.606
This was way before in a smartphone, so I had to flip it open.

00:09:43.606 --> 00:09:44.725
It's the green screen.

00:09:44.725 --> 00:09:47.903
But I answered it again and she said you know what?

00:09:47.903 --> 00:09:52.142
That just doesn't work for me like that was her response to saying I want to break up with you.

00:09:52.162 --> 00:09:52.764
Let's be friends.

00:09:52.764 --> 00:09:54.448
How long you've been together at this point?

00:09:54.549 --> 00:10:03.927
a few months, yeah, and I well, because I knew it was fear he wasn't saying, hey, I don't think we're aligned in our values or we're just too different.

00:10:03.927 --> 00:10:04.808
Like, like he.

00:10:04.808 --> 00:10:10.370
All of what he was saying was you know, this is great and you're great, and I feel all these positive things.

00:10:10.370 --> 00:10:32.729
What he was sharing was his fear of being hurt again, of how serious it was becoming, and so there was a moment where I was literally thinking about it and I was like, wow, I could go the rest of my life wondering what, if, or I could just put my heart on the line right now and just say the bold thing.

00:10:32.729 --> 00:10:35.620
And so I was like, let me do this, let me see what happens.

00:10:35.660 --> 00:10:45.273
Like when we talk about something that hits your subconscious, like I couldn't have even told you if you asked me, what if this girl was to call you back, what would have you be back in?

00:10:45.273 --> 00:10:45.980
Well, I got nothing.

00:10:45.980 --> 00:10:55.780
But she calls back, and it was the way that she said it like really spoke to the subconscious fear that I don't have to fear rejection or that she's going to just break up with me.

00:10:55.780 --> 00:10:57.384
And it spoke right to.

00:10:57.384 --> 00:11:01.841
It just gave me confidence like well, obviously I'm back into this now, fast forward.

00:11:01.861 --> 00:11:06.188
That's not like all the things I had to work through because I didn't see my parents argue at all.

00:11:06.188 --> 00:11:13.025
So you know, we go, we're good for a while, we get a house, but we start to have conflict come up eventually, like all couples do.

00:11:13.025 --> 00:11:28.765
And my only model for conflict is to you know, we're in the car, I stopped saying anything, I look out the window or we have conflict, and I walk out the room just like my dad did, because that has to be better than yelling, screaming, getting aggressive and reacting.

00:11:28.765 --> 00:11:39.225
But I find out that that has my partner feel isolated, incomplete in the conversation, and from her upbringing she doesn't, she won't leave a conversation alone.

00:11:39.225 --> 00:11:44.927
She's like we're gonna get this resolved, so these were literally the opposite forces.

00:11:44.947 --> 00:12:06.010
So we realized early on that, hey, there are things that we both learned, that were, that were modeled to us, and we can either choose to keep those going or we're going to really do the work together and unlearn these patterns and learn some more productive things for the success it's amazing that you didn't, that you took it the way that you took it, rather than be like okay, next yeah.

00:12:07.182 --> 00:12:09.186
To have the balls to call back.

00:12:09.206 --> 00:12:09.748
Thank you.

00:12:09.748 --> 00:12:10.750
Thank you for saying that.

00:12:10.750 --> 00:12:11.331
Who does that?

00:12:11.331 --> 00:12:13.527
I know, especially on the women's side.

00:12:13.880 --> 00:12:16.990
At this point had you already had your psychology degree and you already knew.

00:12:17.299 --> 00:12:36.793
Not at that point, but I was in a leadership program so thankfully I had a coach that was challenging me and my communication and where I would operate from insecurities and fears and so I was being challenged and really seeing where I would really play out just insecurity.

00:12:36.793 --> 00:12:39.799
And I was like you know what, what if I was just confident?

00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:45.232
What if I just said the bold thing, put my heart on the line and I could be turned down?

00:12:45.232 --> 00:12:47.306
But I didn't want to have that.

00:12:47.306 --> 00:12:56.355
What if I really changed so much in having a coach and really seeing just how the way I showed up in relationships was not authentic.

00:12:56.355 --> 00:12:57.465
I was a chameleon.

00:12:57.465 --> 00:13:03.072
I would not say what I really meant and felt because I was afraid of being rejected.

00:13:03.299 --> 00:13:04.243
But also for him.

00:13:04.243 --> 00:13:05.245
You had to have gone.

00:13:05.245 --> 00:13:06.470
I love this guy.

00:13:06.470 --> 00:13:08.284
I'm not just going to let him go.

00:13:08.284 --> 00:13:10.326
There's something like this.

00:13:10.326 --> 00:13:11.109
There's more to it.

00:13:11.109 --> 00:13:12.304
It's just not some guy.

00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:19.428
It was just something that I felt like because it funny enough, when I met him and we went on a date, I was actually in like a dating spree.

00:13:22.724 --> 00:13:24.647
I you know what's so funny I was.

00:13:25.469 --> 00:13:29.254
I was not like a big go on a frequent date kind of person.

00:13:29.254 --> 00:13:31.224
I was a relationship person.

00:13:31.224 --> 00:13:41.082
But I had got, I had gotten broken up with some I can't remember maybe a year before and I was working on myself and again I just really changed my relationship to myself, loved myself.

00:13:41.082 --> 00:13:43.788
I didn't need a relationship like I did in the past.

00:13:43.788 --> 00:13:48.924
And so once I felt that, I'm telling you, men were coming like what is it?

00:13:48.924 --> 00:13:49.866
Moths to a flame?

00:13:50.327 --> 00:13:53.520
I mean just I was our first date.

00:13:53.520 --> 00:13:57.849
I find out years later that I was just one of two that same day.

00:13:57.849 --> 00:14:03.024
I had the morning slot and she had dinner already playing with someone else.

00:14:03.086 --> 00:14:08.162
But it was funny because, honestly, my energy changing did attract people, and so I.

00:14:08.162 --> 00:14:10.986
But here's the thing I was always authentic with people.

00:14:10.986 --> 00:14:12.206
I never ghosted them.

00:14:12.206 --> 00:14:15.230
I always said, you know, hey, I don't really feel the connection with you.

00:14:15.230 --> 00:14:17.808
And people said like, thank you for being honest.

00:14:18.059 --> 00:14:20.148
But did you say I got to wrap this up, I got another date.

00:14:27.299 --> 00:14:28.365
Well, I, after I went out to breakfast with him.

00:14:28.365 --> 00:14:31.217
We went to breakfast, I canceled the next date and I didn't book anymore because I felt such a connection with him.

00:14:31.298 --> 00:14:32.842
So I was like oh, you canceled everybody else.

00:14:32.863 --> 00:14:33.063
Yeah.

00:14:33.345 --> 00:14:35.049
Okay, but you met him at the gym, Did you?

00:14:35.090 --> 00:14:36.863
were you on a dating app or website?

00:14:36.863 --> 00:14:40.922
Before that it was just guys coming up to you or you did you ever go up to a guy and ask him out.

00:14:41.162 --> 00:14:44.106
No, I was literally attracting people just because of my energy.

00:14:44.106 --> 00:14:47.051
So it was at gyms, it was at coffee shops.

00:14:47.652 --> 00:15:01.245
Introductions okay, so let me ask this you guys have been now about to celebrate 10 years 10 years married together 12 okay, and in that time have either of you ever been out somewhere and bumped into someone that you've been, that you were on the dating spree with like oh my god, that's Jerry.

00:15:01.985 --> 00:15:02.668
We went on a minute with him.

00:15:02.687 --> 00:15:03.568
That should be cool.

00:15:03.769 --> 00:15:04.191
We did.

00:15:04.191 --> 00:15:08.057
You actually met one of my exes like had a conversation, have I?

00:15:08.158 --> 00:15:08.620
met one of those.

00:15:08.620 --> 00:15:10.404
It's actually by the yoga studio you go to now, I think.

00:15:10.745 --> 00:15:11.830
Yeah, someone local.

00:15:11.830 --> 00:15:12.964
Have I met any of yours?

00:15:12.964 --> 00:15:13.726
I'm trying to think.

00:15:13.746 --> 00:15:14.269
I don't have any.

00:15:14.269 --> 00:15:23.551
Oh, I didn't need to college, so that was my early years.

00:15:23.650 --> 00:15:27.275
You dated people you weren't in long-term committed relationships.

00:15:27.379 --> 00:15:32.873
No I think my longest before that was two months maybe, so that was a pattern for you Two months break up.

00:15:32.952 --> 00:15:35.557
Two months break up being broken up with or being broken up with.

00:15:35.980 --> 00:15:40.962
Yeah, I mean I never was the one that broke up with someone else, so I'm always on the breakup end.

00:15:40.982 --> 00:15:43.027
So what's it like for you when you met someone that she'd been with?

00:15:44.788 --> 00:15:46.893
I was pretty confident because I think we had been together.

00:15:46.893 --> 00:15:48.640
We may have even been married at that point.

00:15:48.981 --> 00:15:51.568
It could be, yeah something like that Is it important to know the past.

00:15:51.568 --> 00:15:52.831
You know what's funny?

00:15:53.159 --> 00:16:04.691
That's a good question, I think from my own fear I don't know if this was intentionally good or just again from fear I said I don't have, I didn't have any history anyway.

00:16:04.691 --> 00:16:06.321
Right, so this is just all from my benefit.

00:16:06.321 --> 00:16:11.393
I said, let's, let's just erase the past and not talk about the past I because I didn't.

00:16:11.452 --> 00:16:12.986
I didn't even have any partners before her.

00:16:12.986 --> 00:16:14.674
So there's like literally nothing for me.

00:16:14.674 --> 00:16:19.129
And yeah, I didn't really necessarily want to know and I wanted to have a clean slate.

00:16:19.129 --> 00:16:26.369
So I told her early on, like it doesn't matter to me, before me, you made the decisions you made, and so here we are now making decisions together.

00:16:26.369 --> 00:16:27.390
So what?

00:16:27.390 --> 00:16:28.692
What relevance is the past?

00:16:28.692 --> 00:16:28.993
Anyway?

00:16:29.193 --> 00:16:30.014
and that's strong.

00:16:30.014 --> 00:16:31.565
We definitely how do you?

00:16:31.705 --> 00:16:32.708
how do you go from?

00:16:32.708 --> 00:16:37.221
Because prior to being relationship coaches, you're an engineer.

00:16:37.221 --> 00:16:40.664
You were in multi-level marketing no, I was a nurse.

00:16:40.966 --> 00:16:41.626
Oh, you were a nurse.

00:16:41.866 --> 00:16:43.629
Oh you were a nurse.

00:16:43.629 --> 00:16:50.136
Okay, Like, how do you go from engineer and nurse to, oh, we're going to be couples coaches?

00:16:50.136 --> 00:16:52.808
I mean, that's not a straight path.

00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:57.677
I think people today are making a lot more pivots than was common before.

00:16:57.677 --> 00:16:59.946
Right, I think you probably know people who.

00:16:59.946 --> 00:17:03.888
They went to school for something and then they realize this isn't it for me.

00:17:03.888 --> 00:17:06.688
So that's the funny thing about college, right?

00:17:06.688 --> 00:17:12.949
You're supposed to just, at 18, figure out what you want to be and you're kind of picking from a board of like I guess that.

00:17:12.949 --> 00:17:20.247
And so I think just from growing up and having experiences and then meeting, it was like discovering our purpose.

00:17:20.839 --> 00:17:38.684
I have a slightly different answer for that, as well, it was necessity for me to learn relationship skills because I had been such a failure in relationships that I really wanted a marriage to work with her and I didn't feel confident that I knew if we're playing basketball, if we're doing anything, it's what can I learn?

00:17:39.145 --> 00:17:48.607
It's clear what I can learn, and then I start to do it and then I get competent at it and then that's when you have a lot more confidence to get on the court with people that are higher, higher level.

00:17:48.607 --> 00:17:52.039
So I didn't know what it took to have a successful marriage.

00:17:52.039 --> 00:18:03.791
I'm like let's really seek this out, because I want to be confident that if we're going to get married, that we know the tools, we know what we can do to be successful, and it was out of necessity for our own success.

00:18:03.791 --> 00:18:11.943
Then learning those skills and tools and kind of having more of a, if you will, entrepreneurial mentality that we don't have to just work the jobs we went to school for.

00:18:11.943 --> 00:18:17.446
People were asking us like it seems like you guys have communication and conflict resolution skills down.

00:18:17.446 --> 00:18:22.887
So then we just built that into more of a sharing and that it was a business and now it's a brand.

00:18:23.127 --> 00:18:27.023
I mean, and people really liked the idea of something that wasn't counseling.

00:18:27.023 --> 00:18:34.603
So when we were talking about, yeah, we're learning how to communicate, we're learning how to handle conflict, and they were like, oh, outside of a therapist's office, that was interesting.

00:18:34.603 --> 00:18:41.444
This was before Instagram was blowing up and now everyone you know is creating content online, especially for men.

00:18:42.686 --> 00:18:51.131
If you tell typically males like we're going to take a coaching approach, think of the sport, think of running, think of basketball.

00:18:51.131 --> 00:18:53.086
You've got to coach to get better.

00:18:53.086 --> 00:18:56.726
That's what we're going to do in this marriage coaching, we're going to give you skills and tools.

00:18:56.726 --> 00:18:58.164
We're going to hold you accountable.

00:18:58.164 --> 00:18:59.147
This is going to work.

00:18:59.460 --> 00:19:02.321
But do you guys coach individuals or always couples, always?

00:19:02.383 --> 00:19:12.364
couples so it's's not like is it ever one at a time, it's always we will, once in a while, just have like an additional session with one of them if we need to really go deeper into something.

00:19:12.364 --> 00:19:16.703
But we work with the couple because we've had a lot of people ask us well, could you just work with me?

00:19:16.703 --> 00:19:17.747
My partner's not open to it.

00:19:17.747 --> 00:19:21.203
You only get one side of the story and so one person.

00:19:21.203 --> 00:19:27.720
I could be working with them and they're telling my partner this and my partner that, and so it's like painting this picture of like wow, you have kind of a crappy partner.

00:19:27.961 --> 00:19:28.884
So it's always two on two.

00:19:28.884 --> 00:19:31.769
It's not like he'll go with the husband and you'll go with the wife.

00:19:32.461 --> 00:19:35.789
And there is because I've been on the other side of this.

00:19:35.789 --> 00:19:38.988
Okay, and they are clearly next level.

00:19:42.252 --> 00:19:42.413
And.

00:19:42.915 --> 00:19:47.060
I've been on the other side, I can see it well.

00:19:47.060 --> 00:19:49.548
I've been on the other side of counseling, where the counselors just never have an opinion about anything.

00:19:49.548 --> 00:19:55.324
Everything's kind of neutral and and you just kind of sit there and you walk away and nothing happens.

00:19:56.467 --> 00:20:04.229
Their style is coaches, holy moly like if you're, if you're out of line, wait, you've witnessed them coach other people.

00:20:04.368 --> 00:20:07.201
No, me, me and my relationships, holy moly.

00:20:07.201 --> 00:20:07.381
So you?

00:20:07.421 --> 00:20:10.848
sat on the couch in their world.

00:20:11.028 --> 00:20:11.911
Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:20:12.070 --> 00:20:12.853
And did we challenge you?

00:20:14.102 --> 00:20:19.731
Oh, not only challenged, but honest, constructive.

00:20:19.731 --> 00:20:21.015
Hey, buddy.

00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:23.607
So are you the problem in that relationship?

00:20:23.607 --> 00:20:24.865
Does that relationship still exist?

00:20:24.865 --> 00:20:25.181
Hey?

00:20:25.201 --> 00:20:25.320
buddy.

00:20:25.320 --> 00:20:26.222
So are you the problem in that relationship?

00:20:26.222 --> 00:20:27.084
Does that relationship still exist?

00:20:27.084 --> 00:20:27.365
Um it, it it.

00:20:27.384 --> 00:20:55.207
It does indirectly, but um, yes, I was the problem and and she was the problem I mean different ways yeah, everybody brings in this but then you agree to disagree and you're like maybe this isn't right but but to unpack your side and get clarity and then there be, and then this needs to happen in order to move forward, is something that that I just never got inside therapy, and so you guys have.

00:20:55.207 --> 00:21:16.570
I don't know how you you manifested it, but you've got this amazing skill to get to the heart of the issue while both people are there, without putting that other person kind of on the defensive, but doing it in a way to where you know, hey, that behavior is just not going to be conducive to a relationship that's going to be productive.

00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:25.000
So, again, I just Well, as far as coaching goes, do you guys ever coach and say you know what, maybe you guys shouldn't be together, Maybe this isn't?

00:21:25.060 --> 00:21:25.281
right.

00:21:25.281 --> 00:21:30.031
We're very honest with people and we had our first coaching couple.

00:21:30.031 --> 00:21:31.596
This is early on.

00:21:31.596 --> 00:21:40.682
They were engaged, had a wedding date and we said, hey, we do recommend you probably put a pause on this and really work on the issues.

00:21:40.682 --> 00:21:41.883
This was the first couple.

00:21:42.503 --> 00:22:04.480
Now, today, god challenged us honestly if, like the first couple, like we were going to do marriage coaching and the very first couple ever and we had a friendship with them too we were at a crossroads like, okay, if we're really going to do this, are we going to be honest with what we believe is true, right, and so I feel like that was God really saying.

00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.128
This is your initiation into this.

00:22:07.660 --> 00:22:08.846
So what happened with that couple?

00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:16.268
They actually did put a pause on the wedding and they worked on themselves and the relationship then got married and it was much better.

00:22:16.288 --> 00:22:17.751
It's not even that simple.

00:22:17.751 --> 00:22:24.250
I ended up running into him like four years later and he said they pretty much canceled the wedding.

00:22:24.250 --> 00:22:27.193
He went on like a year self-improvement and he said they, they pretty much they canceled the wedding.

00:22:27.193 --> 00:22:29.762
He went on like a year self-improvement, traveled like to different countries.

00:22:29.762 --> 00:22:36.525
He had this awakening, came back as different people and then they they got engaged and got married again.

00:22:36.525 --> 00:22:40.560
So when I met him he was like you know what he was like?

00:22:40.560 --> 00:22:46.888
It was really challenging to hear you guys say that we shouldn't, but he's like now sitting here, he's like I'm so glad we're actually different people.

00:22:47.141 --> 00:22:56.169
Now here's the thing about today because of our brand and the type of videos we put out, we're parents now, and so we do loop in a lot of the parenting elements.

00:22:56.169 --> 00:22:58.185
We attract mostly couples who have kids.

00:22:58.185 --> 00:23:17.486
Of course, there's exceptions, so it's more complicated, right, like we're not going to straight up be like you shouldn't be together when you have kids, because my mission is to keep families together, right, but not just surviving, thriving, and so, rather than being like, hey, this is like probably too hard, you guys should give up.

00:23:17.486 --> 00:23:18.449
The stakes are too high when you have kids.

00:23:18.469 --> 00:23:19.652
There really is an impact.

00:23:19.652 --> 00:23:50.236
We have this motto you don't have to end the marriage, to end this version of the marriage so you can end how it's been existing, the patterns that have been occurring, how you both are playing a role, as you were talking about, and really draw a line in the sand and have an honest conversation about what are we both going to change for the better and what are we going to do moving forward and of course, there's specifics to talk about, but I think that's what's possible.

00:23:50.236 --> 00:23:59.365
You know people, when they encounter challenges in marriage, the quick impulse is to be out rather than to change our marriage.

00:23:59.365 --> 00:24:01.228
I can change my patterns.

00:24:01.228 --> 00:24:03.512
You don't have to change your partner.

00:24:03.573 --> 00:24:07.730
Change your patterns yeah, a lot of people kind of draw that line in the sand and they're like I'm out.

00:24:07.730 --> 00:24:09.364
If he ever does this, I'm out.

00:24:09.364 --> 00:24:10.346
If she ever does this, I'm out.

00:24:10.346 --> 00:24:16.848
And then you realize actually what a strong person you need to be to work through it to make it successful.

00:24:17.019 --> 00:24:18.787
Well, you need a growth mindset to be married.

00:24:18.787 --> 00:24:36.381
I think that is the most important thing is that when you get married to someone, you're with someone who has a growth mindset, who, just like they, care about their career, and they would be like, oh yeah, of course I would go to continuing education, I'd get a coach you know to be better and better in my career.

00:24:36.381 --> 00:24:38.247
I would do the same thing in the marriage.

00:24:38.247 --> 00:24:51.508
I think the biggest red flag if you're like for anyone listening and they're dating, considering marrying someone, is if they say, oh, I don't, I don't believe in that stuff, I don't believe in that, like you know, therapy and coaching stuff.

00:24:51.508 --> 00:24:56.469
That's a red flag because you know why what they're really saying is I'm not willing to look at myself.

00:24:57.500 --> 00:25:01.612
What have you guys learned about your, your coaching, or like, how is it evolved?

00:25:01.612 --> 00:25:04.750
And then how is your relationship evolved?

00:25:04.750 --> 00:25:05.640
And you know not everybody it evolved.

00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:06.079
And then how is your relationship evolved?

00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:07.704
And you know, not everybody, it's not always easy, right?

00:25:07.826 --> 00:25:10.775
nope, been in a little rough patch recently.

00:25:10.775 --> 00:25:12.140
Even we're very open.

00:25:12.140 --> 00:25:23.230
We have a podcast as well, and we are very open about how there are happy and hard moments of marriage between you two yeah, of course when you do your podcast is it weekly, monthly, Weekly, Weekly.

00:25:23.250 --> 00:25:29.268
So you sit down and go, you hit record and you guys are therapizing yourself.

00:25:29.268 --> 00:25:31.353
If that's a word, Do you know what I'm saying?

00:25:31.800 --> 00:25:39.173
I'd say we really reflect on the sessions that we have and what are the themes that we're seeing from men, from women, in marriage.

00:25:39.173 --> 00:25:43.786
So we really take a lot of what we talk about from sessions and it's so funny how it works out.

00:25:43.786 --> 00:25:51.061
I'm sure you have the experience too.

00:25:51.061 --> 00:26:01.391
We'll go through something, and what's been a miracle for us is that we have this outlet, like we have marriage coaching and putting marriage principles online as a way to alchemize our own challenge, which a lot of people wouldn't have.

00:26:01.391 --> 00:26:24.268
So we go through a challenge and we know that that is eventually for us not only for us to learn, but that when we learn it, we teach it, and so I can't tell you how many times we have something come up in our own life and that when we legitimately transform it, a wave of couples will come into our sphere dealing with something very similar.

00:26:24.923 --> 00:26:49.026
Now we're already prepared to really help meet them where they're at, and it's that's happened so many times because, to your point, like our belief and this is what we really invite couples into is that any challenge that is showing up is because it's trying to teach you a lesson like that's our philosophy for life any adversity that you face, any challenge, any obstacle, is trying to develop you into being a better version of yourself.

00:26:49.968 --> 00:26:51.170
So the same thing in marriage.

00:26:51.170 --> 00:27:03.371
So we're about to have our 10 year wedding anniversary and we went through a really traumatic experience with a family member this summer and it kind of just had a ripple effect to us.

00:27:03.371 --> 00:27:06.509
Like we were both kind of in fight or flight because it was a pretty intense situation.

00:27:06.509 --> 00:27:19.653
So we were just more reactive towards each other, more sensitive, you know, just conflicts coming up, and so it was an opportunity for us to go okay, where is our reactivity coming from?

00:27:19.653 --> 00:27:26.773
Why are we being more reactive as opposed to just letting the cycle spiral, spiral, spiral out of control?

00:27:26.773 --> 00:27:30.810
So we just really look at challenges as something that's trying to teach us.

00:27:30.859 --> 00:27:34.255
So you had to address it pretty quickly then and before it spirals.

00:27:34.455 --> 00:27:34.897
Of course.

00:27:35.078 --> 00:27:35.220
Right.

00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:40.653
That's one thing I've realized too in marriage, and more lately now, is communication.

00:27:40.653 --> 00:27:48.538
I don't know if that sounds cliche, but, mike, every time now I feel that there ever was an issue, it's communication.

00:27:48.538 --> 00:27:55.615
Yep, you've got to be, and as a guy, I think it's hard to open yourself up like that about certain things.

00:27:55.615 --> 00:28:22.780
In fact, I was on your Instagram and I saw a bunch of stuff and it just reminds me of so many different levels of marriage, me with so many different levels of marriage, like you know, like for like right now, I saw something about, uh, this, not sexual, but like intimacy, yes, like touching, like like I, I just like the other, like it was last night, like my wife she's just rubbing my back and I was like this feels so good and it was like this weird, like I don't know if it's weird, but it was like, yes, does that make sense.

00:28:22.820 --> 00:28:27.623
Yeah, like I just felt so at one with her and I was so grateful that she was rubbing my back.

00:28:27.623 --> 00:28:29.667
Yeah, you know, and I have this thing now.

00:28:29.667 --> 00:28:40.529
Uh, when you say you're realizing certain things in your life, in your marriage, we've been going through something, because all we have three boys, all three boys now are in college.

00:28:40.529 --> 00:28:48.250
Wow, the youngest so we're almost empty nesters, because the oldest came back to finish online and I know that she was going through.

00:28:48.250 --> 00:28:53.828
That was tough for her, right, and it was tough for me too, and a couple things like bothered me.

00:28:53.828 --> 00:29:00.751
One is that she never really asked me how I was dealing with it, but I was also dealing with it in my own way, so I was also.

00:29:00.751 --> 00:29:05.009
I was also okay that she didn't ask me about it, but I was like, why isn't she asking me about it?

00:29:05.009 --> 00:29:15.372
There was that, and then there's just the when I come home from work, like I kind of want her to say hi to me yeah, does that make sense?

00:29:15.392 --> 00:29:17.625
yeah, you want to be greeted and it hasn't happened in a while.

00:29:17.625 --> 00:29:19.309
And I was all saying you know what it's?

00:29:19.309 --> 00:29:22.467
Because she's caught up in this thing right now with our kids.

00:29:22.467 --> 00:29:23.009
She's got this.

00:29:23.009 --> 00:29:24.231
But I'm about like I was.

00:29:24.231 --> 00:29:34.392
I might even bring it up today because I still haven't had that conversation where I'm like hey, I want you to say hi to me when I come home, but I also don't want her to be like 1950s housewife oh honey, you're home, hi.

00:29:34.392 --> 00:29:35.452
Does that make sense of?

00:29:35.513 --> 00:29:36.580
course, and you know.

00:29:36.580 --> 00:29:42.869
But here's the thing that's powerful about what you're saying is those little seeds I call them seeds these little things starting to form.

00:29:42.869 --> 00:29:46.801
If we don't express them, they grow into weeds.

00:29:46.801 --> 00:29:51.951
They will start to change the way we see our partners see our relationship.

00:29:51.951 --> 00:29:59.192
So then we start to act different, so then that affects how they're feeling in the relationship, and so suddenly you're like why are we both being weird and why is this?

00:29:59.641 --> 00:30:02.086
because I was weird, I acted weird about it and I don't think.

00:30:02.086 --> 00:30:03.289
And then I, and then I.

00:30:03.289 --> 00:30:09.582
Because she didn't say hi to me, I like got pissed yeah so I just turn on the tv and make my lunch and I'm sitting there, and then she'll go oh, you're home.

00:30:09.582 --> 00:30:11.743
I come home every day at this time, honey.

00:30:11.743 --> 00:30:12.726
You know what I'm saying?

00:30:12.726 --> 00:30:13.026
It's funny.

00:30:13.026 --> 00:30:15.087
If she watches, I better talk to her before this podcast drops.

00:30:15.208 --> 00:30:19.814
Yeah, it's great, though, because everyone can relate to that stuff, and that's the thing is.

00:30:19.814 --> 00:30:21.976
People think that it's just happening to them.

00:30:21.976 --> 00:30:25.241
So it's all.

00:30:25.241 --> 00:30:26.569
This marriage stuff is just behind closed doors rather than.

00:30:26.569 --> 00:30:30.040
We have talked to a lot of successful people and they all deal with the same thing.

00:30:30.040 --> 00:30:37.486
So it doesn't matter how successful you are, how strong you are, the dynamics of marriage are very universal.

00:30:37.646 --> 00:30:43.190
I find that being as open as I can and as vulnerable as I can has really helped our marriage.

00:30:43.190 --> 00:30:45.092
I've been married 29 years.

00:30:45.092 --> 00:30:45.811
That's amazing.

00:30:45.811 --> 00:30:47.133
That's a long freaking time.

00:30:47.153 --> 00:30:47.993
So I have a question for you.

00:30:47.993 --> 00:30:51.796
So we talked a little bit about what was modeled for us.

00:30:51.796 --> 00:30:57.980
What did your dad model for you Like?

00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:00.385
how did he show up in the marriage with your mom?

00:31:00.385 --> 00:31:01.326
So my mom and dad, they had they.

00:31:01.326 --> 00:31:06.182
They divorced when I was like 18, um, and they, but they always hung out.

00:31:06.182 --> 00:31:09.191
We always, we were always together Christmas, we're always together, birthdays.

00:31:09.191 --> 00:31:09.701
It was weird.

00:31:09.701 --> 00:31:11.184
It was just like they lived in different places.

00:31:11.184 --> 00:31:18.622
Um, I think they always loved each other, but my dad was always, uh, respectful to my mom.

00:31:18.622 --> 00:31:21.548
Um, never my mom.

00:31:21.548 --> 00:31:22.509
She's mexican.

00:31:22.509 --> 00:31:24.472
She flew off the handle all the time.

00:31:24.472 --> 00:31:26.864
She was screaming and yelling, but my dad would always.

00:31:26.864 --> 00:31:29.810
Why can't we have a conversation and talk like this?

00:31:30.051 --> 00:31:31.903
right, this is how they would fight um.

00:31:31.903 --> 00:31:34.048
Does that answer your question?

00:31:34.048 --> 00:31:36.452
Well, like I mean did he express himself?

00:31:36.452 --> 00:31:37.945
He would.

00:31:37.945 --> 00:31:45.539
If they got into a huge fight now, when I was a kid and they got into a huge fight, I would get excited because I got to stay up late and watch tv, um, so I'll be like they're fighting.

00:31:45.941 --> 00:32:05.904
Yes, we get to watch tv, um, but he would go close the door in his room and I remember it was like but isn't that interesting about how it wasn't just communicating, it was to express myself as a fight, and that's what a lot of people associate if they witnessed conflict, like for me, same thing my parents divorced and it was.

00:32:05.904 --> 00:32:20.595
I didn't see communication, I saw fighting, and so that's what a lot of people, if they did witness that, they associate expressing themselves with this is going to start a fight yes, so then they don't want to do it my dad will come out of the bedroom and then fight with my mom.

00:32:20.615 --> 00:32:22.565
They would argue about stuff and I would witness.

00:32:22.565 --> 00:32:26.044
I can't remember what it was, but I just remember the tension you know, and how ugly.

00:32:26.085 --> 00:32:27.548
It was as a kid, yeah.

00:32:27.548 --> 00:32:33.403
But I also think, like now, like I communicate with my wife, she communicates like we've been to therapy a lot.

00:32:33.403 --> 00:32:34.767
You know it's a, it's a lot.

00:32:34.767 --> 00:32:36.730
It's a lot to be 29 years together.

00:32:36.730 --> 00:32:37.431
You've got a.

00:32:37.431 --> 00:32:46.361
It's a lot of work and I have to say honestly, in 29 years I don't think my marriage has ever been happier and healthier than it is right now why do you think that is?

00:32:47.042 --> 00:32:54.508
communication, being open about everything and vulnerable and just sharing like everything, you know everything, like I like.

00:32:54.508 --> 00:32:58.907
She called me handsome today when I was leaving the house and I know that sounds silly, but I was like, I like that.

00:32:58.907 --> 00:33:02.009
I remember I came up with therapy one time.

00:33:02.009 --> 00:33:04.847
I was like you know, I don't know if you think I'm attractive or not.

00:33:04.847 --> 00:33:05.529
You know what.

00:33:05.549 --> 00:33:08.469
I mean, yeah, so where did your vulnerability come from?

00:33:08.469 --> 00:33:15.663
Because we, when we went to Jesse's oh yeah, he, we're all sitting there on the lawn.

00:33:15.663 --> 00:33:18.086
He says, okay, raise your hand.

00:33:18.086 --> 00:33:19.007
Where are you from?

00:33:19.007 --> 00:33:19.866
Why are you here?

00:33:19.866 --> 00:33:21.208
All that stuff?

00:33:21.208 --> 00:33:24.451
And you're one of the first people that talked.

00:33:24.471 --> 00:33:27.093
That's because they went in certain order.

00:33:27.093 --> 00:33:32.857
I hate that stuff, yeah, and you described how uncomfortable you were.

00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:37.309
I don't know what I'm getting myself into and I'm like God, this is somebody I want to hang out with.

00:33:37.309 --> 00:33:38.786
I mean, he was so raw and real.

00:33:38.786 --> 00:33:44.670
I'm like I know this guy from the business climate and that doesn't match, but yet it does.

00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:46.344
And that was so.

00:33:46.344 --> 00:33:48.109
That whole thing was so out of character for me.

00:33:48.109 --> 00:33:52.568
I was lying in bed with my wife this Jesse is a guy who I big fan of, I love.

00:33:52.568 --> 00:33:57.904
He posted it's a guy who I big fan of, I love.

00:33:57.904 --> 00:34:00.691
He posted something about a sauna and and cold plunge, which I love, and my wife was sleeping and I.

00:34:00.711 --> 00:34:01.913
I did it you just signed up.

00:34:01.994 --> 00:34:02.375
I did.

00:34:02.375 --> 00:34:05.366
And then she woke up and I go, I did this thing and she was like what are you doing?

00:34:05.366 --> 00:34:06.589
I go, I signed up for this thing.

00:34:06.589 --> 00:34:07.740
I'm trying to unsign up.

00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:10.846
She was like do it, just do it.

00:34:10.846 --> 00:34:12.728
I'm like, no, no, just do it.

00:34:12.728 --> 00:34:14.190
You gotta Just do it, just do it.

00:34:14.190 --> 00:34:19.954
And I was sick to my stomach for days until this thing happened, and then I loved every second of it.

00:34:19.954 --> 00:34:25.552
That's awesome, and so that's when I decided to continue to take challenges and do stuff Kind of like this podcast.

00:34:25.552 --> 00:34:32.684
This kind of stuff freaks me out, but by the way, a couple things I love that.

00:34:32.704 --> 00:34:37.047
I always want to have arms where I'm talking and you can see the veins oh yeah, we met at the gym.

00:34:37.086 --> 00:34:38.827
That's what drew me in.

00:34:38.867 --> 00:34:45.432
That's awesome, but also I'm fascinated by not wanting to know her past.

00:34:45.432 --> 00:34:49.275
Not that you have some crazy past, but, like my wife, we were dating.

00:34:49.275 --> 00:34:58.548
I wanted to know everything you know and maybe this is bad, but 29 years years later, I still bring up her first boyfriend.

00:34:58.568 --> 00:34:59.251
I bring him up all the time.

00:34:59.251 --> 00:34:59.934
Funny, what for just to have fun.

00:34:59.954 --> 00:35:03.692
Okay, like uh, in fact she even said we were, um, like I said we took my son to school.

00:35:03.692 --> 00:35:05.199
He's a freshman at the university of arizona.

00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:10.132
She went there, she was in a sorority and I was like, because you know, we went and moved him in.

00:35:10.132 --> 00:35:11.322
I'm like, so did your dad.

00:35:11.322 --> 00:35:12.224
Her parents are divorced.

00:35:12.224 --> 00:35:14.628
I said so how did you guys move into the dorm?

00:35:14.628 --> 00:35:16.853
She said, oh, my mom moved me in, I go, just your mom.

00:35:16.853 --> 00:35:19.688
And she's like oh, and somebody else.

00:35:19.929 --> 00:35:20.670
And it was her boyfriend.

00:35:21.661 --> 00:35:23.809
So it doesn't bother me at all.

00:35:23.809 --> 00:35:25.646
I mean I look at it like I won.

00:35:26.108 --> 00:35:34.469
Yeah, of course You've got 29 years and kids, it reminds me of something else you brought up earlier was about the vision right that a couple needs to have.

00:35:34.469 --> 00:35:47.072
But I think we've really learned, especially in our own life, let alone all the couples that we've talked to, is, if you're going to be married a long time and there's a lot of science too duration is not your main goal.

00:35:47.072 --> 00:35:51.070
Duration with high satisfaction is your goal.

00:35:51.070 --> 00:35:53.266
You don't want to just be married under obligation for 50 years.

00:35:53.266 --> 00:35:53.849
That's really no way to live.

00:35:53.849 --> 00:35:54.110
Is your goal.

00:35:54.110 --> 00:35:56.822
You don't want to just be married under obligation for 50 years, like that's no, really no way to live.

00:35:57.563 --> 00:36:01.192
So, with that being said, marriage goes through an evolution.

00:36:01.192 --> 00:36:05.568
Like you kind of have to remake your marriage every so many years.

00:36:05.568 --> 00:36:09.666
That's so good, that's so good, and that's that's how we best describe the vision.

00:36:09.666 --> 00:36:18.905
A vision is a way to conceptualize the collaborative future that you want to create together, by saying, hey, we know we've done what we've done in the past.

00:36:18.905 --> 00:36:23.945
We have the amount of money, the kids, the achievements, but okay, here we are now.

00:36:23.945 --> 00:36:27.416
What do we want to recreate going forward?

00:36:27.416 --> 00:36:36.494
And I think that's a part of how you keep that spark, the romance, that's how you see each other differently, because if you don't do these things.

00:36:36.494 --> 00:36:42.581
Then there's this erosion, like I can wake up after 10 years, after 20 years, and then there she is again.

00:36:42.860 --> 00:36:43.322
Oh, the video.

00:36:43.322 --> 00:36:50.646
You guys posted the roommates, the roommates video that's a great great video roommates versus uh romantic romantic partners.

00:36:50.646 --> 00:36:58.480
Wow that, that, that that hit hard, because I think, being together as long as I've been together, you go through that For sure and if you don't stop it, it's going to be a problem.

00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:00.146
We have kids and money and business.

00:37:02.208 --> 00:37:11.168
and how do you navigate a couple that is not on the same motivational wavelength in terms of trying to come to a solution?

00:37:11.168 --> 00:37:16.161
Maybe it's more so on the husband, or more so on what do you do to bring along both people?

00:37:17.302 --> 00:37:18.365
Anything jumped out at you.

00:37:18.365 --> 00:37:22.041
I mean, I think we always like to first see what they both value.

00:37:22.041 --> 00:37:26.592
Right, talk about values and usually they are more aligned than they might think.

00:37:26.592 --> 00:37:34.447
So the initial thing they're arguing for, like, let's say, it's a I know you're big on finances, right, so it might be a financial decision that they're trying to make.

00:37:34.447 --> 00:37:42.150
If they get detached from what they're both saying as their argument and come back to what they value, that's usually the same thing.

00:37:42.780 --> 00:37:56.628
There are exceptions where people do have different values, but for the most part, that's part of what made them choose to get married was that they're aligned in those values and then when they get reminded of that, it helps them make the decision.

00:37:56.628 --> 00:38:10.451
So, for example, a couple that we actually know really personally one partner was just offered a really big promotion and, as they talk about it because it's enticing, it was a lot of money, it's so enticing Everyone's oh, more money.

00:38:10.451 --> 00:38:36.262
But when they really looked at what they value and their kids are still young, so they really want as much time with their kids they even want to do somewhat of like a hybrid homeschool, a little bit of an outside school, and they want to just raise them very intentionally, they realize that that didn't align, because it would have had them traveling a lot more, working later nights, and so that's what we always have, like the vision, like you were bringing up the vision and values.

00:38:36.262 --> 00:38:40.693
When they really do get connected to that, the answer becomes a lot more clear.

00:38:41.501 --> 00:38:47.222
And, to simplify it, things typically get worse the more you focus on yourself and the more short term you get.

00:38:47.222 --> 00:38:51.755
And so then that easily happens when you don't recreate that vision.

00:38:51.755 --> 00:39:02.574
Because the vision expands your time horizon to the medium, the long term, and it incorporates your partner and your family, and it's been more popularized now.

00:39:02.574 --> 00:39:11.447
But being self-conscious the more self-conscious you are, the more miserable miserable you'll be like, the more you focus on the self and the more short term.

00:39:11.447 --> 00:39:20.126
So, like to your to your question, couples just get too focused on themselves versus the partnership and they get too focused short term.

00:39:20.126 --> 00:39:23.413
What they're doing now, what to get done today?

00:39:23.740 --> 00:39:25.545
what she's not doing.

00:39:25.925 --> 00:39:32.789
I was gonna go there next too right, and if you don't recreate that, you just leave yourself in a place but aaron, it's just really her yeah, yeah, I mean all.

00:39:33.030 --> 00:39:34.182
What else are you going to focus on, right?

00:39:34.182 --> 00:39:35.025
If you don't have that?

00:39:35.025 --> 00:39:36.530
It's your really her.

00:39:36.530 --> 00:39:36.871
Yeah, yeah, I mean.

00:39:36.871 --> 00:39:38.195
What else are you going to focus on, right, if you don't have that?

00:39:38.195 --> 00:39:49.009
It's your differences in preferences and perceptions about whatever where the dishes go, organization, how you hang your clothes, when the dishes are put in the dishwasher, who takes them out.

00:39:49.009 --> 00:40:02.144
It just you get down to such mundane things and you and your partner are always going to have differences in personality, in preferences, and so if you don't have something to counteract hyper-focusing on that, then that's all you think about.

00:40:02.144 --> 00:40:04.708
Why can't they be like this, why can't they be like that?

00:40:04.708 --> 00:40:05.510
That annoys me.

00:40:05.510 --> 00:40:12.340
That's just all the minutia of not recreating every maybe six, seven years.

00:40:12.340 --> 00:40:19.554
If you're going to do this a long time, what's next, and what is it next for us, and how do we take this out to the medium to long?

00:40:19.574 --> 00:40:19.655
term.

00:40:19.655 --> 00:40:22.304
Well, we review our vision at least once a year.

00:40:22.304 --> 00:40:28.786
It's really important because life can change so quickly and so even to your point like you're becoming empty nesters.

00:40:28.786 --> 00:40:31.400
That's a really important time in a marriage, right?

00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:35.672
The early years of having young kids like that's a very vulnerable time.

00:40:35.672 --> 00:40:44.610
There's a lot of evolution when you go from just being the two of you to then having kids, but then also when you're going to have, you know your kids out and no longer in the home.

00:40:44.610 --> 00:40:46.061
That's a time to also go.

00:40:46.061 --> 00:40:47.425
What's next for us, babe?

00:40:47.425 --> 00:40:49.309
What's our vision now?

00:40:49.309 --> 00:40:55.742
Otherwise, it's very easy to feel kind of like you've grown apart or it's just the mundane.

00:40:56.063 --> 00:41:03.708
You do grow apart, especially when you are like the breadwinner and so you're making the sacrifices to be away from your family, to go to work.

00:41:03.708 --> 00:41:13.717
Yeah, it makes me think you're the couple that was deciding to take the job, for money Also, you've got to provide, so you've got to work.

00:41:13.717 --> 00:41:18.505
It takes away a lot, and then you do kind of fall into that roommate situation that was saying earlier.

00:41:18.505 --> 00:41:20.702
So it's like you're working, you're working, you're working.

00:41:20.702 --> 00:41:38.034
You come home, dinner, food, take the kids to school, work, work, work back, and then you kind of lose track of the romance between you and your spouse and so you really got to work hard at that, you know, and then, like that's kind of where I feel like we're at right now, with kids being gone, that we've been fortunate enough to be able to still be romantic with each other.

00:41:38.155 --> 00:41:38.614
That's great.

00:41:38.614 --> 00:41:43.512
How did you prioritize your marriage all those years, even while raising kids Didn't Really?

00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:45.748
That's when we probably had to do the therapy part.

00:41:45.748 --> 00:41:49.972
Sometimes I'm like I can't believe she stayed with me and that this happened.

00:41:49.972 --> 00:42:00.072
I'm so blessed and I thank God every day for my marriage Honestly blessed, and I thank God every day for my marriage because I honestly, when I say I thank God every day for marriage, I truly do that.

00:42:00.072 --> 00:42:03.503
Every single morning at 4 am, I say out loud the things I'm grateful for, and my marriage is one of them.

00:42:03.503 --> 00:42:05.208
Because it's amazing.

00:42:05.208 --> 00:42:07.244
Sometimes you look at what's happening.

00:42:07.244 --> 00:42:09.998
I can't believe we got this far, this happened, this happened.

00:42:09.998 --> 00:42:10.380
This happened.

00:42:10.380 --> 00:42:12.483
We drifted apart here, but we came back together.

00:42:12.483 --> 00:42:16.750
Now we work really, really hard and it's fun too.

00:42:16.750 --> 00:42:18.152
Now it's fun.

00:42:18.152 --> 00:42:19.514
I love coming home.

00:42:19.514 --> 00:42:25.286
I love seeing what she's going to wear to bed Not that she wears anything freaky it's usually a t-shirt but I love seeing what t-shirt she's going to wear.

00:42:25.306 --> 00:42:25.889
I love that.

00:42:25.889 --> 00:42:30.405
I still get passionate about every inch of her body, if that makes sense.

00:42:30.505 --> 00:42:46.373
I love that you're authentic about seeing a therapist in the journey and I think for anyone listening, wherever you are in your marriage journey maybe you're engaged maybe a few years in decades is to really reframe that you do have the time.

00:42:46.373 --> 00:43:01.512
I think people have this focus on career, finances, raising the kids and they forget that their marriage is the foundation of their family, that when you are connected everyone else thrives.

00:43:01.512 --> 00:43:03.057
Like, think about that.

00:43:03.057 --> 00:43:05.445
You perform better at work when you're connected.

00:43:05.445 --> 00:43:14.724
If you're arguing at home or disconnected, you know you're not thinking as clearly, you're not as confident, you're maybe even thinking about that argument and then you're anxious to go home, right.

00:43:14.724 --> 00:43:23.610
So if you two focus on your connection, even in little ways, every single day, every week, everything else is easier and your kids benefit.

00:43:23.610 --> 00:43:31.329
Like that's what a lot of our research focuses on now, especially as we get ready for our next book, is how much a strong marriage benefits kids.

00:43:31.690 --> 00:43:37.532
I believe that I'm so happy with how my three boys at this point have turned out.

00:43:37.532 --> 00:43:41.489
And I think it's because they've seen their dad love their mom, their mom love their dad.

00:43:41.489 --> 00:43:50.090
We do family trips, we hold hands, we do all kinds of stuff and that's one of the things I'm proud of the most of those three kids and it's mostly all her, because I was at work all day.

00:43:50.231 --> 00:43:54.887
So you both saw your parents get divorced right, you said yours and hers divorced.

00:43:55.188 --> 00:43:58.394
Her parents got a very, very ugly, ugly divorce.

00:43:58.394 --> 00:44:01.574
My parents turned key and they still hung out all the time.

00:44:01.634 --> 00:44:02.780
Yeah, they even got back together.

00:44:02.780 --> 00:44:05.867
What's cool is you guys have both now been cycle breakers.

00:44:07.030 --> 00:44:07.692
Oh, yeah, right.

00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:13.947
Like I don't know if you've ever recognized that about yourselves Like you broke a cycle your kids don't Like.

00:44:13.947 --> 00:44:14.909
It ended with you.

00:44:15.170 --> 00:44:21.481
Right, yeah, they're already, so the youngest is 19.

00:44:21.481 --> 00:44:23.025
So that means, if you go by with it, right, boom High five, now we can break up.

00:44:23.045 --> 00:44:25.570
No, no, that that would actually just be another cliche.

00:44:25.570 --> 00:44:26.612
Right Is breakup.

00:44:26.612 --> 00:44:28.965
When the kids go off to school, right?

00:44:28.965 --> 00:44:37.501
Cause that's what a lot of people do is say, oh, let's just tough it out, let's wait till they move out.

00:44:37.501 --> 00:44:37.922
It's like number one.

00:44:37.922 --> 00:44:38.423
The kids knew all along.

00:44:38.423 --> 00:44:42.713
Kids are so smart, they know if you're arguing, if you're disconnected.

00:44:42.713 --> 00:44:51.516
So, yes, it benefited them to a degree, but they were picking up on it and did they get the example of love?

00:44:51.516 --> 00:44:54.264
Did they get the example of partnership?

00:44:55.106 --> 00:44:56.449
and for the ones that didn't pick it up.

00:44:56.449 --> 00:45:01.512
Then they feel like it was a sham, like oh, literally, you got divorced a few months after I went to college.

00:45:01.512 --> 00:45:03.164
So what?

00:45:03.164 --> 00:45:09.405
You just stayed together of obligation for me, and then they internalized some of that too, right, so there's I mean, there's no win either way.

00:45:09.405 --> 00:45:13.925
So you guys, you guys were hiding stuff, just uh, until I went off to college.

00:45:13.925 --> 00:45:17.384
And then it's like this shock, it's like oh, do you guys have workshops?

00:45:17.463 --> 00:45:21.432
it's like big old thing, like I think it'd be fun to go to like a.

00:45:21.432 --> 00:45:22.001
Is it like?

00:45:22.041 --> 00:45:23.909
we do an in-person workshop, we have one in october.

00:45:24.170 --> 00:45:35.840
Yeah, we've done over 50 in-person events in person, like how many people go to a workshop um, lately we've been maxing it at about 44 couples, so about 88 people on the room 44 couples because we could go bigger.

00:45:36.181 --> 00:45:46.802
We have usually a wait list of people saying can I please get in, but we really like to make sure that we're available to talk to every single couple if they want the interaction wow, it's, it's incredible.

00:45:46.842 --> 00:45:49.110
Been there, been there done wow.

00:45:49.150 --> 00:45:50.898
So the one you have in october, where is it?

00:45:50.898 --> 00:45:51.460
Can people sign up?

00:45:51.460 --> 00:45:52.963
Or yeah, it's in chandler, arizona.

00:45:53.023 --> 00:45:57.851
There's a few seats left yeah it's called the couples workshops, if they went to our website where do you do it?

00:45:57.851 --> 00:46:05.452
Um a marriott in chandler okay yeah, it's really nice because it's right near two freeways, so it's easy to get to is it just you two?

00:46:05.900 --> 00:46:06.943
let me talk to the business side.

00:46:06.943 --> 00:46:09.471
Do you have people that handle your social media?

00:46:09.471 --> 00:46:10.121
Do you have people that?

00:46:10.260 --> 00:46:14.911
or we have an assistant, we have a pr team Book agent.

00:46:14.911 --> 00:46:15.813
Yeah, book agent.

00:46:16.603 --> 00:46:17.286
But hold on a second.

00:46:17.286 --> 00:46:18.170
That stuff's pretty new.

00:46:18.813 --> 00:46:22.469
Yeah, oh, just the last couple years that stuff is pretty new, oh yeah.

00:46:22.469 --> 00:46:23.625
It just used to be us.

00:46:24.019 --> 00:46:36.614
Okay well when you get to your social do you guys say, let's do a video on this, and you set up the camera and you're doing it all yourself, and then are you editing it on your computer, on your phone, on CapCut, like who's doing what?

00:46:36.860 --> 00:46:46.108
Yeah, podcast stuff, we have an editor because those are long and we do video and we don't want to do like long, long video editing, but social media we still film it.

00:46:46.108 --> 00:46:57.213
We come up with the scripts ourselves, we film it and then edit it, because I honestly, am so fast at it now that if I, it would take me the same amount of time to upload the files and send them.

00:46:57.860 --> 00:46:59.023
So you're editing it on a laptop.

00:46:59.344 --> 00:46:59.865
Just your phone.

00:46:59.865 --> 00:47:01.090
Yeah, social media videos.

00:47:01.090 --> 00:47:01.972
It's a little bit easier.

00:47:02.661 --> 00:47:03.483
It's also more than that.

00:47:03.483 --> 00:47:07.289
For you, it's like it's a place of her expression, that's her creativity.

00:47:07.639 --> 00:47:11.382
I think what you guys post is fantastic and it's so well done, thank you.

00:47:11.382 --> 00:47:13.643
And so, is there anything that's gone viral?

00:47:13.643 --> 00:47:15.362
Is that one of the things that Incredibly viral.

00:47:15.384 --> 00:47:18.065
I mean several posts, I would say.

00:47:18.065 --> 00:47:23.226
A few messages really strike a chord One you actually mentioned around intimacy.

00:47:23.226 --> 00:47:27.989
We did a scene where I actually reject his attempt to be intimate.

00:47:28.028 --> 00:47:29.130
This was a recent one.

00:47:29.130 --> 00:47:31.550
What does that do to the guy when he makes it?

00:47:31.550 --> 00:47:33.911
I'm sorry, was he showing his?

00:47:34.052 --> 00:47:44.137
arms when you did that In the video you see her sleeping and you see my hand come over the top, and so I'm going to sleep and I'm like not tonight, hon Right.

00:47:44.157 --> 00:47:48.057
So the typical, like every couple has experienced that.

00:47:48.579 --> 00:47:48.800
Right.

00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:53.028
So let's talk about that video, but also in in in therapy.

00:47:53.028 --> 00:47:56.193
What does that do to the guy when he gets rejected?

00:47:56.420 --> 00:47:58.224
Oh, I mean, rejection hurts right.

00:47:58.264 --> 00:48:00.010
Should you not reject or what do you do?

00:48:00.090 --> 00:48:03.186
What we would say instead right is talk about intimacy.

00:48:03.186 --> 00:48:23.552
So, rather than just kind of being like attempting and then rejecting, and then you're both silent and you know you're both kind of, you both know it's causing friction and pain is to openly talk about intimacy, to whether you want to pick it on a weekly basis or some period of time where you're checking in and it can be as casual as like hey, babe, how are you feeling about our connection?

00:48:23.552 --> 00:48:32.126
Talk about emotional intimacy and physical intimacy, making it not feel like this serious, heavy conversation we openly talk about.

00:48:32.126 --> 00:48:33.471
Are you enjoying our intimacy?

00:48:33.471 --> 00:48:35.583
Like, let's talk about it.

00:48:35.583 --> 00:48:39.726
We don't make it feel like a scary topic to discuss.

00:48:39.847 --> 00:48:42.273
But is it ever one person who wants it more than the other person?

00:48:42.273 --> 00:48:44.730
And then is that like a whoa hey, settle down.

00:48:45.010 --> 00:48:52.112
Yeah, I think that because a lot of people focus on frequency and, in particular, you know, men tend to have what's called spontaneous desire.

00:48:52.112 --> 00:49:02.112
Right, there's two desire types, so men could be intimate probably as often as as every day, potentially Right, whereas women are responsive desire.

00:49:02.112 --> 00:49:10.929
And this is so important that couples really learn this, because I think it's really important for men to learn about how women operate.

00:49:10.929 --> 00:49:11.411
What?

00:49:11.411 --> 00:49:16.407
Why don't we just like we're not going to sit on the couch and just suddenly be like man, I'm turned on, I'm ready to go?

00:49:16.427 --> 00:49:17.030
Yeah, that's so tough.

00:49:17.030 --> 00:49:19.748
That's not how women operate right and so.

00:49:19.748 --> 00:49:21.726
That's why gay guys have it so great Okay.

00:49:23.181 --> 00:49:25.128
I don't have an opinion on that right.

00:49:25.739 --> 00:49:49.728
But I think just being able if if men, any men are listening to this is to just talk to your wife and really understand, like, what does help you feel, like you desire intimacy and so responsive desire, is when you're really responding to the environment, you're responding to the amount of connection that you feel in the relationship and also we're sensual, right.

00:49:49.728 --> 00:49:52.436
So we're not going to again just spontaneously feel like it.

00:49:52.436 --> 00:49:55.304
It's really because we've been flirting.

00:49:55.304 --> 00:49:58.972
You know, he's's been thinking about things like my love.

00:49:58.972 --> 00:50:03.550
You can think about the love, languages or even a part of it, but also sensual experiences.

00:50:03.550 --> 00:50:06.228
So we don't have to go on a whole thing like that.

00:50:06.228 --> 00:50:08.980
You can watch our reels on intimacy, but it's talk about it.

00:50:09.019 --> 00:50:16.806
But also sometimes then the guys, you know, I feel I talk to my wife about this sometimes, that there's, I feel I talk to my wife about this, sometimes that there's, I know the women want the whole romance thing.

00:50:16.806 --> 00:50:19.668
But then guys also, sometimes I think we look at it a couple different ways.

00:50:19.668 --> 00:50:26.115
One it's going to help me go to sleep, right, I know there's the whole love thing, but I got to be in bed and I want to be asleep in 10 minutes.

00:50:27.579 --> 00:50:29.322
Let's do a quickie but then it feels transactional to women.

00:50:29.561 --> 00:50:32.085
Right, but it I think it shouldn't.

00:50:32.085 --> 00:50:34.367
It's okay, you got to compromise sometimes.

00:50:34.387 --> 00:50:37.291
Well, it's just where the proactive communication you know, comes in.

00:50:37.291 --> 00:50:42.335
And so she's going to share with me the season that she's in what has her feel desire and connection.

00:50:42.335 --> 00:50:51.309
We'll both do that and not like it's a negotiation, but it's an understanding that we there's mutual care and mutual desire to meet those needs.

00:50:51.519 --> 00:51:07.369
So without that conversation, without that understanding, understanding, then that's probably what breeds dysfunction and resentment yeah, because you're not connected, because it could it can be like what you're talking about, as long as it's it's communicated in a way that everybody knows where everybody is right where the quickie comes from.

00:51:07.509 --> 00:51:18.764
For the guys, the quickie right and I think the man there was so many comments like so many unbelievable opposite ends comments on these videos, on the one on the intimacy video.

00:51:18.824 --> 00:51:19.126
Oh, my gosh.

00:51:19.146 --> 00:51:24.072
Yeah right, I can't even tell you I'm gonna go look, some are like scary I have to even hide them literally.

00:51:24.092 --> 00:51:27.146
I've had to hide some because I'm like this is so toxic yeah

00:51:27.226 --> 00:51:30.077
oh, you mean like angry or just very unhealthy?

00:51:30.097 --> 00:51:33.824
I'm not gonna, I'm just saying, it's just unhealthy perspectives that I wouldn't even want people to read.

00:51:33.824 --> 00:51:38.070
You know where it's yeah, I mean, I don't, I only do that for the far extreme right.

00:51:38.271 --> 00:51:49.085
Oh sure yeah and you know, but there's, there's this idea in between that men need something and women need a different way and there's got to be an accommodation.

00:51:49.085 --> 00:51:54.184
But like, literally what's missing in the whole thing is like, have you even said that to your partner, right?

00:51:54.184 --> 00:51:55.827
It's kind of like what we said in the beginning.

00:51:55.827 --> 00:52:02.608
I tried to break up with her and it's like oh well, f you, then I'm out and you just act like you've had this shield up the whole time.

00:52:02.608 --> 00:52:07.947
That's how most I can see, most of these, these comments about these posts are the same way.

00:52:07.947 --> 00:52:12.465
It's like oh, if you're not going to meet my need, then like if you, I'll go find someone else, right?

00:52:12.485 --> 00:52:41.909
and it's like but you're not going to look at how you're communicating about this, how vulnerable you've been sharing, how this this season is different for you, and so, even with all that said, it's so you know, I can't go to her and say here's what I need, regardless of how I've treated her for the last week, if I've been rude and diminishing or distant, went from zero to 60 on harsh comments like the whole week, and now I'm like it's time for your duty.

00:52:41.909 --> 00:52:44.144
It's like what kind of relationship right?

00:52:44.204 --> 00:52:47.822
no, you're right, you're right, you're 100, but I can't see you doing that no, exactly.

00:52:47.842 --> 00:52:48.945
Well, so it just comes down to that.

00:52:48.945 --> 00:52:49.786
I like how what you said.

00:52:50.007 --> 00:52:58.666
It's time for your duty like you're all that's what some, some comment literally how many people, how many people actually like that's my right?

00:52:59.268 --> 00:53:05.994
oh, that is a perspective that some people hold and they're not our followers, they're not the people that follow us, so that's a post that's gone viral.

00:53:05.994 --> 00:53:18.827
Uh, also, we have another one that really struck a chord, where it's about don't stay married for the kids and we actually, yeah, we reframe it and say fight fair for the kids, communicate for the kids, break the cycles for the kids.

00:53:18.867 --> 00:53:24.027
So to again just challenge that whole perspective of like let's just tough it out and stay together.

00:53:24.027 --> 00:53:26.818
It's like no, do the work do the work for them.

00:53:26.838 --> 00:53:30.650
Getting back, I want to get to the your, the methodology of your social media, because it's so huge.

00:53:30.650 --> 00:53:32.784
Do you do a post a day?

00:53:32.784 --> 00:53:34.927
Yes, no matter what, is that how it has to work?

00:53:35.429 --> 00:53:37.152
it not has to, I just have.

00:53:37.152 --> 00:53:51.072
I'm the marketing person so we run the business together, but I I just happen to be the marketing person and is a creative expression for me, like I'm not a good artist, I'm not a good painter or anything like that, and so it is like an outlet for me.

00:53:51.072 --> 00:53:59.286
I love words, I love communicating through language, and so I choose to do a post every day but do you set a day where you film all your content?

00:53:59.708 --> 00:54:02.563
yeah, we do, yeah, we'll film, chop it up and then you drop.

00:54:03.106 --> 00:54:03.849
That's how it works.

00:54:03.849 --> 00:54:04.371
I'm just trying to.

00:54:04.371 --> 00:54:09.954
I just think it's so fascinating I want to know, because it's it's you know, for, like me and my social media, I'm shooting stuff.

00:54:09.954 --> 00:54:11.440
I just oh, I have this and I post it.

00:54:11.440 --> 00:54:18.974
I don't I really want to start to think about it and see how especially your stuff's like so well lit, it's so sounds so good, it's really really well done.

00:54:18.974 --> 00:54:22.266
Thank you that arcadia high school did their job it wasn't them.

00:54:22.385 --> 00:54:24.530
I loved arcadia, but it wasn't them.

00:54:24.570 --> 00:54:28.208
But it's interesting where you were when you started.

00:54:28.208 --> 00:54:29.050
You weren't like we.

00:54:29.050 --> 00:54:37.452
We tend to see this the freemans, million followers, polished content like well thought out and we're blown away.

00:54:37.452 --> 00:54:49.782
Yep, but I think people need to also understand where you started with jerry roberts and that book thing and then just kind of nickel and diamond, your vision, oh yeah, and you stayed committed to it.

00:54:49.782 --> 00:54:53.547
Um, I, I remember it, you guys were woo, woo-woo.

00:54:53.547 --> 00:54:56.652
We have 10,000 followers, and it was years.

00:54:57.032 --> 00:54:58.414
Yes, oh, so many years, years.

00:54:58.414 --> 00:55:04.228
Oh, I mean, it just is consistency, and I'm a big person of I observe.

00:55:04.228 --> 00:55:10.849
I observe what's landing, what's resonating, and then I just keep doing that and keep kind of refining it.

00:55:10.849 --> 00:55:13.248
So I'm just a big observational person.

00:55:13.539 --> 00:55:16.829
There's a lot of things I see on social media, I think where things are overproduced.

00:55:16.829 --> 00:55:20.213
And it's like it's not good, like your stuff is perfect.

00:55:20.273 --> 00:55:29.429
It's really really good we're in our pajamas sometimes, you know, because we want it to be real, like this is what has what couples experience behind closed doors at home.

00:55:29.429 --> 00:55:33.346
They're in their pajamas, or we just make it like real life.

00:55:33.525 --> 00:55:35.449
So you do a post a day, and what about stories?

00:55:35.449 --> 00:55:36.192
Is that I?

00:55:36.231 --> 00:55:36.853
do one a day.

00:55:36.853 --> 00:55:42.126
We just don't have the time to, like, do a ton of let me show my whole life but, you just do one a day, yeah?

00:55:42.126 --> 00:55:45.393
And I mean I think, yeah, I don't know why Just all.

00:55:45.393 --> 00:55:51.146
I'm a mom and we run a big business now, and so I just Speaking about how?

00:55:51.166 --> 00:55:51.927
about parenting now?

00:55:51.927 --> 00:55:53.570
So you're a new mom, new parents.

00:55:53.570 --> 00:55:57.195
How do you deal with that as far as, like, you're with the baby?

00:55:57.195 --> 00:55:58.561
No, you're with the baby, Like you know.

00:55:58.561 --> 00:55:59.465
Like, how do you?

00:55:59.465 --> 00:56:02.105
Oh, she's doing too much, I'm not doing enough.

00:56:02.105 --> 00:56:04.179
Is that a problem in a relationship as well?

00:56:04.219 --> 00:56:21.494
Well, it's changed because so her first year of life so she's almost four now Her first year of life, we had a nanny at the house, us.

00:56:21.494 --> 00:56:27.846
So that was really nice because we would just work a little bit and then I'd be with her and we'd be with her, and so it was very much like working and being with her and then eventually, you know, felt like she was ready for an external environment and so we really try to consolidate our work hours.

00:56:27.846 --> 00:56:30.210
I think the older she gets, the more time we want with her.

00:56:30.210 --> 00:56:38.625
You know, it's like, oh my gosh, she's growing so fast, and so our goal, even next year, is like let's shorten our work days even more.

00:56:38.625 --> 00:56:43.664
You know, that's our goal and we even we came up with talking about vision, our new vision.

00:56:43.724 --> 00:56:44.547
So he just turned 40.

00:56:44.547 --> 00:56:46.773
So 10 years from now he'll be 50.

00:56:46.773 --> 00:56:55.028
And we said let's get to the point by the time you're 50, where we literally have the choice to work or not, because what's cool?

00:56:55.028 --> 00:56:56.650
So we had kids a little bit later in life.

00:56:56.650 --> 00:57:11.005
I was just shy of being a geriatric mother at 35, right, and so, uh, when she's a teenager, like we want to be able to just travel with her, right, have like work a little bit work when we want to.

00:57:11.005 --> 00:57:15.907
So that's our, our new vision that excites us do you guys do vision boards, you do the we have.

00:57:15.980 --> 00:57:19.016
We used to do that a lot more, like with the pictures and things like that.

00:57:19.016 --> 00:57:22.688
Now it's more like we just write it out you write down your goals, talk about it yep.

00:57:22.688 --> 00:57:23.449
Talk about the vision.

00:57:23.449 --> 00:57:23.630
What's?

00:57:23.800 --> 00:57:25.324
it look like oh, it does.

00:57:25.344 --> 00:57:26.708
Yeah, it's important.

00:57:26.708 --> 00:57:34.869
Otherwise it kind of just feels like you're just doing stuff rather than you're doing things that are on track to some vision.

00:57:34.869 --> 00:57:35.972
Yeah.

00:57:39.699 --> 00:57:41.041
Psychology has a phrase that says your aim creates the frame.

00:57:41.201 --> 00:58:01.467
So whatever you aim at in life creates the perspective that you see anything so it's what I'm aiming for determines whether I see Walter as an opponent or as a teammate, or if any challenge I face is an obstacle or is this going to be an opportunity.

00:58:01.889 --> 00:58:19.414
So there's like a lot of psychology that literally, how our cognition works, how our perception works, is correlated to what we're aiming for Understanding what we aim for, not just from a conscious perspective, because that's another thing in marriage, right, it's like you can talk to husbands and it's like, well, what do you actually value?

00:58:19.414 --> 00:58:20.635
Oh, I value family.

00:58:20.635 --> 00:58:22.675
It's like, okay, tell me about your week.

00:58:22.675 --> 00:58:26.338
Well, I work 80 hours a week and I'm on my phone, I'm at home.

00:58:26.338 --> 00:58:28.378
It's like you're not valuing family.

00:58:28.378 --> 00:58:37.675
It's like you're providing probably, yes, but you might value status and you might value your network a lot more than actual time with your family, right.

00:58:37.675 --> 00:58:51.942
So our top level idea of what we value is not the real subconscious value, because that drives all of your action and it creates how you perceive any object or any person in your life.

00:58:51.942 --> 00:58:55.960
Is this moving me towards or away, the thing I actually want?

00:58:56.590 --> 00:58:57.273
And for all of us like.

00:58:57.755 --> 00:59:01.710
Being honest about what we really want and what we value is a hard conversation by itself.

00:59:01.710 --> 00:59:02.632
Is there a book?

00:59:02.954 --> 00:59:05.512
that you guys both love Gosh so many.

00:59:05.512 --> 00:59:07.599
We've read so many self-development books.

00:59:08.170 --> 00:59:09.876
One of my favorite is the Big Leap.

00:59:09.876 --> 00:59:12.817
It's a really great identity book.

00:59:12.817 --> 00:59:13.498
I love that one.

00:59:13.498 --> 00:59:14.492
And then a parenting book.

00:59:14.492 --> 00:59:15.554
I love Good Inside.

00:59:15.554 --> 00:59:17.577
That's my girl crush, Dr Becky.

00:59:17.577 --> 00:59:21.556
What would you say is one of your favorites recently?

00:59:21.916 --> 00:59:23.865
I mean personally in this thread, like I love.

00:59:23.865 --> 00:59:25.130
I do love Jordan Peterson.

00:59:25.130 --> 00:59:32.360
Some of his, some of his books are dense, though you know, so you got to get, you got to find the right one for what you're trying to get.

00:59:32.360 --> 00:59:41.813
But I've learned a lot from him and psychology and that's kind of where the your aim creates the frame.

00:59:41.833 --> 00:59:43.298
What about as far as in your field Like, do you guys believe?

00:59:43.398 --> 00:59:44.643
in Gottman's all got John Gottman stuff.

00:59:44.643 --> 00:59:45.346
Oh yeah, we love the Gottman's.

00:59:45.346 --> 00:59:49.878
I mean, obviously they're like the godparents in this industry, so we completely respect.

00:59:49.898 --> 00:59:57.210
We refer to their content In parents in this industry, so we completely respect.

00:59:57.210 --> 00:59:57.478
We refer to their content in our last book.

00:59:57.478 --> 01:00:05.789
We refer to them, um, and talk about them, so we absolutely love them in the marriage space, what's kind of cool is like we're one of the biggest you know to be, which is kind of surreal, and and people come to our workshops and I this blew me away like I would have never anticipated.

01:00:05.789 --> 01:00:10.697
They say like I think of you on the level of the gotmans and that's great that's.

01:00:10.797 --> 01:00:13.742
I mean, we don't see ourselves that way at some point, right?

01:00:13.922 --> 01:00:15.123
Yeah, yeah, potentially.

01:00:15.164 --> 01:00:21.891
But there's a lot of we're friends with a lot of people in this space, um, but we just, I think, people number one.

01:00:21.911 --> 01:00:29.273
They resonate with us because we're a husband and wife team, so they get the male and female perspective of things, as opposed to just one person.

01:00:29.273 --> 01:00:30.956
And we're just very real.

01:00:30.956 --> 01:00:33.739
We don't try to be like, oh, we're perfect.

01:00:33.739 --> 01:00:35.342
You know some accounts that aren't.

01:00:35.342 --> 01:00:37.425
They're just more like content creators.

01:00:37.425 --> 01:00:45.012
They'll like do these elaborate?

01:00:45.012 --> 01:00:49.742
You know rose petals to the bed and these candles lit everywhere and it's like, yeah, that might get likes and views, but it's not what's happening every day.

01:00:49.742 --> 01:00:51.976
That's not what real life looks like.

01:00:51.976 --> 01:01:11.036
So people appreciate that we talk about what does staying connected look like when you're busy, when you're in the trenches of parenting, and so I think people appreciate that it's realistic, authentic and that we also challenge people too, especially in our podcast Like we'll definitely challenge people on there there's not a lot of couples.

01:01:11.409 --> 01:01:14.119
I don't even suggest running a business with your partner to everyone.

01:01:14.119 --> 01:01:22.121
It's not an easy thing to do, and there's just not a lot of people that love marriage coaching as much as we do.

01:01:22.121 --> 01:01:23.172
I mean, what?

01:01:23.172 --> 01:01:37.485
What couple can you find wants to dedicate their life to marriage skills and tools and doing that together and being around each other 24 7 and be parents like we, literally like you couldn't be around your partner more than we're around.

01:01:37.811 --> 01:01:39.615
So can you go away and decompress?

01:01:39.615 --> 01:01:41.420
Can you go on vacation together and let it go?

01:01:41.420 --> 01:01:44.039
Or are you working on it all the time?

01:01:44.260 --> 01:01:47.972
no, we intentionally, like our anniversary trip, we're doing a bucket list trip.

01:01:47.972 --> 01:01:49.215
We're going to banff, canada.

01:01:49.215 --> 01:01:49.978
Have you ever been?

01:01:50.398 --> 01:01:50.880
I have not.

01:01:50.900 --> 01:01:54.579
My father's been many times, it's just like, like oh, it looks amazing, look it up.

01:01:54.579 --> 01:01:59.336
Right, we're staying at a castle on the base of a mountain, and so we even were talking about it.

01:01:59.336 --> 01:02:08.637
We're big on talking about expectations ahead of time any trip, family trips and so we said, you know, hey, let's really make sure we're not working.

01:02:08.637 --> 01:02:09.338
We're not.

01:02:09.920 --> 01:02:15.565
She did set the expectation that, but we are going to get a photographer for one day.

01:02:15.565 --> 01:02:16.925
We got to shoot some photos.

01:02:16.945 --> 01:02:17.786
Oh yeah, sure.

01:02:18.509 --> 01:02:20.556
She said about five times a day we're going to take a photo.

01:02:20.715 --> 01:02:22.061
I didn't say five.

01:02:23.271 --> 01:02:25.639
But that's a part of the proactive communication too, right?

01:02:25.639 --> 01:02:32.557
We could say and have the unexpressed expectation that we're just going to leave it all and we're going to go.

01:02:32.557 --> 01:02:33.760
You know, have fun.

01:02:35.030 --> 01:02:43.813
But you're also content creators too, so when you're there, I think it's important to show that side of that as well to you know.

01:02:43.813 --> 01:02:45.717
Grab some snippets.

01:02:46.358 --> 01:02:51.557
Wait, let me ask you I'm sorry I'm asking all these questions on like how do you deal with relationships?

01:02:51.557 --> 01:02:57.557
Like, say, she wants to go girls' night out and she wants you to come, or couples' baby showers.

01:02:57.557 --> 01:03:01.610
And like, are you both in on doing everything together?

01:03:01.610 --> 01:03:03.818
Or it's like no, you go out with your girlfriends, I'll stay home.

01:03:04.130 --> 01:03:05.255
Oh, we definitely do things apart.

01:03:05.255 --> 01:03:10.757
I mean, this week is one of my best friend's birthday, so I'm going to do a whole spa day.

01:03:10.757 --> 01:03:14.632
He meets with guys at least once a month.

01:03:14.652 --> 01:03:21.853
He's got this guys group of friends or or therapy things um no, it's kind of like some of the groups you guys have been in.

01:03:21.853 --> 01:03:24.320
I have a small men's group of eight guys.

01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:33.213
I have relationships with all them, some friends, some were kind of in the network, but they all live in gilbert and so we get together once a month so we've.

01:03:33.313 --> 01:03:43.516
So you make it important to have guy night out and girl night out oh yeah, absolutely, and we even just recently talked about, you know, hey, let's each find in the next year a conference or retreat that we each want to go to.

01:03:43.516 --> 01:03:45.099
That's an individual thing.

01:03:45.601 --> 01:03:50.338
So I mean at time, apart definitely where he would go somewhere by himself and you go, oh wow.

01:03:50.498 --> 01:03:51.601
Yeah, I think those times apart.

01:03:51.621 --> 01:03:58.402
We're in like a very particular book writing phase but, like next year, we're obviously going to be promoting this new book.

01:03:58.402 --> 01:04:03.822
But it's also as we look for our vision and the season that we've been in.

01:04:03.929 --> 01:04:15.974
We've both been saying it is that season for me to find a men's group to be a member of and go to events, many of which you know, walter, have been passing to me that you might be a part of too.

01:04:15.974 --> 01:04:49.838
Johnson wants to find a great group of women's collective to be a part of and go to events, and so I think 2026, as much as we'll be promoting this new book, we're going to be through this writing phase and, like, probably take more personal time again, because it's it's it's the season we can't came out of and what we feel this new season is calling us into is for me to get more time with men, do a little bit more on my own and and similar for her how do you guys handle like each other when it comes to birthdays, like does she want big presents and big dinner, or are you low-key?

01:04:50.179 --> 01:04:50.742
how's that work?

01:04:50.983 --> 01:04:53.251
depends on the the birthday I just had, my 40th.

01:04:53.251 --> 01:04:54.293
Was that a big one?

01:04:54.293 --> 01:04:54.755
It was.

01:04:54.755 --> 01:05:00.213
Yeah, it was a surprise I planned a trip california we had some other couples that went with us.

01:05:00.293 --> 01:05:01.737
I went all out saying so.

01:05:01.737 --> 01:05:09.418
He didn't know the location or what we were doing, and I rented a crazy cool cliffside mansion for us and eight other friends.

01:05:09.418 --> 01:05:11.121
I hired a chef.

01:05:11.121 --> 01:05:12.903
We went on a boat.

01:05:13.244 --> 01:05:15.231
Wow, I really I spoiled you, right?

01:05:15.231 --> 01:05:17.155
You like that stuff For the 40th?

01:05:17.155 --> 01:05:18.137
Yeah, I loved it, okay.

01:05:18.157 --> 01:05:18.398
Yeah yeah.

01:05:18.398 --> 01:05:19.931
And then I maybe not.

01:05:19.990 --> 01:05:20.853
Maybe not every birthday.

01:05:20.853 --> 01:05:24.512
Right, yeah, we're not big on everything I like to have some buy-in on some of the things.

01:05:24.733 --> 01:05:25.434
Yeah, yeah.

01:05:25.494 --> 01:05:26.275
And what about for you?

01:05:26.275 --> 01:05:29.440
Like what's are you, is your love language, acts of service?

01:05:29.440 --> 01:05:30.101
Is it gifts?

01:05:30.402 --> 01:05:32.625
Definitely acts of service makes a big difference.

01:05:32.625 --> 01:05:33.916
I do love gifts.

01:05:33.916 --> 01:05:38.929
I would need to retake the test now to see what makes a difference.

01:05:38.929 --> 01:05:40.032
I think it is.

01:05:40.032 --> 01:05:51.052
For me, what makes me really feel connected is just little check-ins, little emotional check-ins, but I am looking forward to our 10-year wedding anniversary, which we're also going all out for.

01:05:51.052 --> 01:05:56.099
We have talked about my 40th, which will be in 2027, making that a big trip.

01:05:56.398 --> 01:05:58.902
So we like to focus on the big milestones.

01:05:58.981 --> 01:06:00.864
There's a good point here, though, too, for the listeners.

01:06:00.864 --> 01:06:04.646
We're all not just like one fixed human being, right?

01:06:04.646 --> 01:06:10.916
It's like you go through experiences, you have challenges, you learn, you become a different person.

01:06:10.916 --> 01:06:15.476
Your partner's doing the same thing, so you're having to remake really who each other are.

01:06:15.476 --> 01:06:16.298
I think you need to.

01:06:16.298 --> 01:06:20.217
If you don't recognize that, then you live into this fantasy that you're with the same person.

01:06:20.217 --> 01:06:24.155
It becomes boring, but you got to recognize that there's growth happening over there for that person.

01:06:24.155 --> 01:06:37.759
So even with love languages I so I had a traumatic birth experience, and so my physical touch, love language, is literally the lowest it could possibly be, to the point of like I didn't even like to be touched.

01:06:37.759 --> 01:06:42.802
So I could say that my love language is definitely not physical touch.

01:06:42.802 --> 01:06:45.518
Or even someone else that says it's middle of the road.

01:06:45.518 --> 01:06:51.523
Try not touching your partner for a year and see if physical touch doesn't become an important thing for them.

01:06:51.523 --> 01:06:54.981
I was going to say I think those can change too Totally A hundred percent.

01:06:55.230 --> 01:06:56.414
Like so would you say?

01:06:56.414 --> 01:06:58.400
You're not the type of person that's going to hold hands in a movie.

01:06:59.690 --> 01:07:04.994
Not in the past, but when I know it's important to my partner and physical affection is important to a relationship.

01:07:04.994 --> 01:07:08.050
It's like I need to intentionally go beyond what I think.

01:07:08.090 --> 01:07:09.235
Because you know what's important to her.

01:07:16.329 --> 01:07:28.706
So you have to compromise and also, even just if you think about it sometimes, when so talking about coming home and greeting your partner, like, try this the next time you see your wife this evening, rather than just the quick peck or quick hug, hold each other for several seconds and you release oxytocin, right, you?

01:07:28.706 --> 01:07:37.742
There's something that happens in our bodies when we are really holding someone, so it's just, it's good for brain chemistry, your body.

01:07:37.742 --> 01:07:39.148
I've said it to my wife before.

01:07:39.188 --> 01:07:52.619
At night, when we're in bed, it's like, hey, this doesn't have to be about sex, I just let's just hold each other for a little bit and it just, and I feel like it's like a iphone battery charger yeah, because your body is literally feeling bonded with someone.

01:07:52.619 --> 01:07:57.065
When you say you had a traumatic birth experience, are you talking about actually birth like the day you were born?

01:07:57.065 --> 01:07:57.829
Something happened, oh yeah.

01:07:58.130 --> 01:07:59.978
Yeah, I was born six weeks early.

01:07:59.978 --> 01:08:01.735
I was only four pounds.

01:08:01.735 --> 01:08:07.297
I wasn't breathing so they had to put me immediately on respirators and I had a whooping cough.

01:08:07.409 --> 01:08:18.670
I was blue and you think that because of that day that's affected you as an adult I think and I didn't put it together till later in my life but I really never liked being touched.

01:08:18.670 --> 01:08:22.743
And then a friend of mine was like, well, wait, tell me about your birth again.

01:08:22.743 --> 01:08:25.451
And she was like that makes so much sense.

01:08:25.451 --> 01:08:26.953
Oh my gosh, it does make sense.

01:08:26.953 --> 01:08:40.195
It's like if you were a soul and you came into this world and the very first experience you had was physical pain being jabbed with needles and respirators would probably do something to you.

01:08:40.195 --> 01:08:42.917
And I was like, wow, I literally never thought about that.

01:08:42.957 --> 01:08:43.659
How about your brother?

01:08:43.659 --> 01:08:47.279
Did he have a birth similar or did he?

01:08:47.792 --> 01:08:49.189
Oh no, he had a fine birth.

01:08:49.250 --> 01:08:52.140
So he likes being touched, he likes being hugged and stuff like that.

01:08:54.311 --> 01:08:59.417
He's got different things, some anger things that I think he's working through.

01:08:59.637 --> 01:09:00.381
We all have our things.

01:09:02.756 --> 01:09:04.796
You do the couples workshop.

01:09:04.796 --> 01:09:12.854
What other tools do people have available to access the Freeman magic?

01:09:13.296 --> 01:09:24.981
everything ranging from we have 30-day couples, challenges, which we're at probably 45 000 couples now have done that no kidding yeah we have online guides.

01:09:24.981 --> 01:09:27.407
We have online web classes.

01:09:27.407 --> 01:09:30.636
There's a wait list for working with us privately, but that's available.

01:09:30.636 --> 01:09:36.310
So we try to have like we meet people where they're at at different levels, right, whether they just want something simple.

01:09:36.350 --> 01:09:42.797
So you're doing private coaching yeah, yeah, we scale that down though more and more as we like work on our book and other things like that.

01:09:42.797 --> 01:09:54.465
Yeah, but that I I don't ever want to go to no private coaching, because that's how we really get such a pulse on what couples are dealing with right and stay really plugged in and keep sharpening our skills.

01:09:54.465 --> 01:09:56.195
So we really enjoy that still.

01:09:56.970 --> 01:10:00.862
How about dealing with menopause and hormone issues and that stuff?

01:10:00.862 --> 01:10:02.715
Are you guys up to date in that?

01:10:02.796 --> 01:10:04.720
Oh, yeah, that's been a part.

01:10:04.720 --> 01:10:14.783
We just did an intimacy series on our podcast and we did an episode where we talked about that a little bit, and then I'm actually having a guest doctor on our show in the coming weeks where we'll talk about that specifically.

01:10:14.783 --> 01:10:17.439
And I just had my hormones tested.

01:10:17.439 --> 01:10:25.765
So I wanted to just really learn, even like before perimenopause officially, you know, begins and go through that stage.

01:10:25.765 --> 01:10:32.444
So I'm huge on like starting to talk to both men and women, understanding how their hormones changing are impacting them.

01:10:32.444 --> 01:10:39.440
And again, that's part of the open communication is we are aging, so let's make sure we're learning about it, talking about it.

01:10:39.990 --> 01:10:42.137
That's a tough thing to go through when you're going through that both.

01:10:42.137 --> 01:10:45.926
Oh, yeah, asking, life with the hormones, because they don't really happen at the same time.

01:10:45.926 --> 01:10:46.087
Mm-hmm.

01:10:47.291 --> 01:10:54.363
And then you know the crying yes yeah, we can be hormonal, for sure, oh I was talking about me.

01:10:54.645 --> 01:10:55.305
Oh, you're the one crying.

01:10:55.305 --> 01:10:55.806
I'm just kidding.

01:10:55.806 --> 01:10:56.287
I'm just kidding.

01:10:57.190 --> 01:11:05.801
Yeah, I mean we want to talk about all of that right, All the things that people really deal with, including when they become empty nesters, and all the real issues.

01:11:05.801 --> 01:11:08.569
We don't talk about that a lot, right.

01:11:08.569 --> 01:11:25.900
We actually don't accept clients where that has happened, um, because they really need to work with a specialist who focuses on that, because it is such like a niche challenge, right, and so that just isn't our main specialty.

01:11:26.561 --> 01:11:29.775
Yeah, we have you uh watched or listened to esther perel?

01:11:29.895 --> 01:11:30.738
oh yeah, I yeah, I love her.

01:11:30.738 --> 01:11:31.461
She's great right?

01:11:31.461 --> 01:11:33.346
I'd like to meet her someday, oh same.

01:11:33.606 --> 01:11:34.430
She's amazing yeah.

01:11:34.609 --> 01:11:38.921
She has a lot of really powerful insights and just the human experience.

01:11:38.921 --> 01:11:41.649
Yeah, there's so many amazing people out there there are.

01:11:41.649 --> 01:11:49.920
Funny enough, speaking of listening to things, this is a full circle moment, because I listened to you in high school in the car driving.

01:11:49.920 --> 01:11:53.064
Listen to my music, John Jay, so this is pretty cool.

01:11:53.064 --> 01:11:54.845
Now, a couple decades later, Well, thank you.

01:11:55.452 --> 01:11:56.537
Yeah, way to be consistent.

01:11:56.729 --> 01:12:05.756
Yeah, it speaks to your consistency too, and now here you are, a listener of mine, and now I'm taking all this stuff you guys said and go tell my wife I need to get home.

01:12:06.539 --> 01:12:06.940
Isn't that funny.

01:12:06.940 --> 01:12:09.578
You can be like she listened to me when she was in high school.

01:12:09.779 --> 01:12:11.399
Somehow I be like she listened to me when she was in high school.

01:12:11.560 --> 01:12:21.368
Somehow I could have influenced what happened, yeah, your career somehow oh definitely, yeah, there's always an influence well, thanks for coming on our podcast it was really cool, really cool to pick your brains on stuff like that.

01:12:22.051 --> 01:12:29.056
You know it's like to think about it because we were talking to them about relationships, but also I was fascinated by the social media part of it.

01:12:29.056 --> 01:12:30.140
Yeah, I mean, you guys are amazing.

01:12:30.140 --> 01:12:30.904
Good luck to you guys.

01:12:30.904 --> 01:12:31.867
Thank you so much, and to you guys Thank you.

01:12:31.886 --> 01:12:32.710
Thank you so much.

01:12:32.710 --> 01:12:33.954
I mean you're consistent.

01:12:33.954 --> 01:12:35.074
You've been doing this a long time.

01:12:35.074 --> 01:12:36.457
That's what it's all about, right?

01:12:36.457 --> 01:12:41.478
It's like not expecting instant success, really being consistent over a long period of time.

01:12:41.649 --> 01:12:44.252
I just signed for five more years with iHeart.

01:12:44.412 --> 01:12:44.731
Did you?

01:12:44.773 --> 01:12:47.795
Yeah, and it's actually because because of him.

01:12:47.795 --> 01:12:48.876
Isn't that weird?

01:12:48.895 --> 01:12:49.496
What do you mean?

01:12:49.496 --> 01:12:50.176
Tell us more.

01:12:50.898 --> 01:12:57.762
He invited me to a party that I would have never gone to in a million years and in fact my wife there's no one else my wife's like where are you going?

01:12:57.762 --> 01:13:01.666
I go, walter invited me to this thing and she's like why'd you say yes?

01:13:01.666 --> 01:13:03.046
Because I normally would never go to?

01:13:03.046 --> 01:13:20.722
And I talked to this person that was at the party and they said they'd handle it for me and they put together the best deal I've ever had.

01:13:20.743 --> 01:13:23.895
Oh, amazing, congratulations.

01:13:23.895 --> 01:13:26.641
He's like that, walter's just such a champion for people.

01:13:26.641 --> 01:13:27.122
He's like.

01:13:27.122 --> 01:13:27.831
He's like.

01:13:27.831 --> 01:13:30.555
I'm trying to look for how I can help everyone.

01:13:30.917 --> 01:13:34.423
And then this guy training to run a hundred mile race.

01:13:34.423 --> 01:13:36.416
What the hell's wrong with you?

01:13:36.416 --> 01:13:37.457
And then and then did it.

01:13:37.457 --> 01:13:38.769
It didn't something happened.

01:13:38.769 --> 01:13:42.997
My wife said like you got, you didn't make something happen, you got hurt or something or no.

01:13:43.056 --> 01:13:44.856
No, missed the cutoff at the halfway point.

01:13:45.270 --> 01:13:48.175
So you ran 50 miles and they're like hey, sorry.

01:13:48.314 --> 01:13:49.315
Yeah, no, you can't continue.

01:13:49.315 --> 01:13:50.859
You don't make the cutoff, you don't continue.

01:13:50.859 --> 01:13:52.822
Wow, but you went for it.

01:13:53.162 --> 01:13:54.564
Were you sore after 50 miles?

01:13:54.564 --> 01:13:56.426
No, you're incredible.

01:13:56.507 --> 01:13:57.087
I know he is.

01:13:57.087 --> 01:13:58.029
You're incredible yeah.

01:13:58.310 --> 01:13:59.976
Well, thank you for putting this together too, yeah.

01:14:00.136 --> 01:14:00.398
No no.

01:14:09.801 --> 01:14:11.323
This is where these guys are next level.

01:14:11.323 --> 01:14:11.904
Yeah, Meet the.

01:14:11.944 --> 01:14:13.685
Freemans, and that's also our website URL.

01:14:14.006 --> 01:14:14.286
Oh good.

01:14:18.010 --> 01:14:21.381
And so we can't announce the official title of our book yet, because we're going to do a really fun, cool, special announcement thing.

01:14:21.381 --> 01:14:23.355
But be on the lookout for that.

01:14:23.449 --> 01:14:24.934
We'll have to come back when we're.

01:14:24.953 --> 01:14:27.300
I'm telling my stories right now.

01:14:27.300 --> 01:14:27.862
Hey, yeah.

01:14:28.002 --> 01:14:28.283
Yeah.

01:14:30.711 --> 01:14:34.340
Yeah, but we'll have to come back and talk about that.

01:14:34.359 --> 01:14:34.581
Let's go.

01:14:34.581 --> 01:14:35.181
This is great.

01:14:42.387 --> 01:14:43.029
Thank you for having us.

01:14:43.029 --> 01:14:51.573
Okay, so welcome to our podcast.

01:14:51.573 --> 01:14:59.975
This is a little bit different today, because this podcast is a spinoff of our radio show.