Influence vs Manipulation — Do You Know the Difference?

WEBVTT

00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:06.879
Okay, so welcome to our podcast.

00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:13.439
This is a little bit different today because this podcast is a spin-off of our radio show.

00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:24.320
Yeah, look at you.

00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:26.559
You look like you look well rested.

00:00:27.679 --> 00:00:28.640
Have you been traveling a lot?

00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:29.440
Did I what?

00:00:29.519 --> 00:00:30.640
Have you been traveling a lot or anything?

00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:32.880
I have you're in Hawaii like the last eight times I texted you.

00:00:33.119 --> 00:00:38.880
The last seven weeks I've been every weekend because Kemp Kemp Division II kept making it.

00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:41.119
They kept winning in their March Madness.

00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:42.320
You know, they kept going.

00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:46.640
So we were in San Diego one weekend and we had to wait to see if they won, and they won.

00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:49.520
Then we had to go to we had to go to San Francisco for the next weekend.

00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:52.560
And then at halftime, they're up by 12.

00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:56.320
And I'm like, man, we're gonna go to the and then they they lost by four.

00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:02.079
Speaking of, and this is my ADD brain, when you said San Diego, you met your wife in San Diego, right?

00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:04.159
You got 30 years coming up, don't you?

00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:05.040
How do you know that?

00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:07.519
Dude, you think I don't do my research?

00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:08.879
You don't think I pay attention?

00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:10.079
Wait, how long have we known each other?

00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:12.000
You just think I sit here and come to talk about me?

00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:14.879
I know shit about you that you don't even know I know about you.

00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:17.280
She's uh, yeah, it's her birthday today, as a matter of fact.

00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:19.439
I have my own version of like Lord, you watch Game of Thrones?

00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:20.879
Yeah, like Lord Baelish?

00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:22.719
I got my own little little version of the Lord Baelish, you know?

00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:28.000
I got spies all around you.

00:01:28.319 --> 00:01:29.519
That's that's true.

00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:31.359
Did you did you really do some Googling before you?

00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:36.480
No, I literally think I don't pay attention to you, but I wouldn't know I barely know my anniversary.

00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:40.400
Uh, you and I have a lot of commonalities, like a lot of similarities that you don't know.

00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:41.680
We just never get a chance to talk about them.

00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:42.719
Like a foot fetish?

00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:46.000
Uh fertility journeys, fucking having boys.

00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:48.480
I didn't know you you were going through fertility stuff.

00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:49.120
Yeah, yeah.

00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:50.400
I did that's how I got my son.

00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:50.799
I did.

00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:52.159
Yeah, Bronson was a miracle.

00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:55.439
We had everybody in the world tell us we weren't gonna have it, lost embryos.

00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:56.159
Oh, yeah.

00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:57.280
Yeah, all that, yeah, yeah.

00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:08.159
I mean, even like with the divorce, you know, like we lost an embryo in the process of trying to have another child, but then, you know, the byproduct, unfortunately, of the divorce is there's certain embryos that you know lost in that.

00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:09.840
But yeah, Bronson was like a miracle.

00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:12.080
You mean you got a divorce and there's frozen embryos?

00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:15.360
So we had five embryos when we went through our fertility journey, right?

00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:18.560
And this was after, oh, it's never gonna happen, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:21.840
I feel like, you know, everybody's got a story of a doctor like telling them that.

00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:24.639
It's like they go to some school or they're like, just tell people this.

00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:27.360
And then it feels like more of a miracle, mindfuck them to the max.

00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:29.680
You know, and then we were blessed to have Bronson.

00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:31.919
And so we had four other embryos.

00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:35.840
Um, one, we lost in that process, like when I was still married.

00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:43.199
And then, yeah, unfortunately, due to certain laws and regulations and divorce, you know, you don't always get to decide what happens to the remaining embryos.

00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:44.560
Well, so but what happened?

00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:48.879
Uh, well, in this case, uh, they're gonna be dissolved.

00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:49.919
Oh, they're gonna destroy.

00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:50.319
Yeah.

00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:52.879
We have, I have, I have, I'm sorry, let me put my phone away.

00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:59.599
I have, or my wife and I have um one more frozen embryo, and it is my youngest son, Dutch's twin.

00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:00.240
Oh, really?

00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:00.879
Yeah.

00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:04.080
So it's kind of crazy to think that there's another one of him.

00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:06.639
And wasn't he like a miracle, miracle, miracle?

00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:09.919
Like the Well Kemp, my middle son, and him are twins.

00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:10.240
Okay.

00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:11.360
But they're just two years apart.

00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:11.520
Yeah.

00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:12.479
You know how they do that.

00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:13.120
The first arrest.

00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:14.000
So from the same thing.

00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:14.159
Yeah.

00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:15.439
But there was one more there.

00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:17.439
So we like pay rent on him in Tucson.

00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:19.520
He's in a fertility clinic in Tucson.

00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:19.680
Yeah.

00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:20.240
Still.

00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:22.479
Uh I think it's like a hundred bucks a year or something like that.

00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:23.360
But it's like, what do we do?

00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:31.280
And then I thought, wouldn't that be wild if like he goes through infertility and then his wife was able to carry that egg, which is his twin?

00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:32.319
Because you know what's gonna happen.

00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:33.360
It's gonna get crazy as that.

00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:34.080
Right on, right?

00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:43.280
Yeah, and I mean, I at one point in time, my my now ex-wife, but we had a friend that was having trouble, went through a terrible journey, and we were considering, well, she was to be a surrogate.

00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:45.840
And so, like, yeah, lots of I mean, you know.

00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:46.400
We did that.

00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:46.960
We did that too.

00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:48.479
Yeah, I remember with Kemp, right?

00:03:48.639 --> 00:03:50.319
Kemp, yeah, Blake's sister carried him.

00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:51.759
Yeah, by the way, the podcast is on.

00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:53.039
That's the I understand.

00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:54.240
So I mean, it's good.

00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:56.159
No question, nothing's off limits, is it?

00:03:56.319 --> 00:03:57.439
No, it's not with you, is it?

00:03:57.599 --> 00:03:57.759
No.

00:03:58.080 --> 00:03:58.800
No, no, not at all.

00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:00.159
Okay, good because that's good.

00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:04.719
Because I know we I had you last time I saw you, you were on my radio show trying to find you a woman.

00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:07.439
Yeah, well, that was uh, oh my god.

00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:09.520
I have I have quit dating, thankfully.

00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:10.159
Have you really?

00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:10.719
Uh yeah.

00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:12.159
I mean, is everything really on?

00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:13.199
Like we can talk about whatever.

00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:16.160
You don't have like a sensitive, crazy, weird woke audience or anything.

00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:16.879
I don't think so.

00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:17.439
Okay, good.

00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:18.000
I don't think so.

00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:21.120
Yeah, I mean, I think I went on eight dates.

00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:23.120
Uh with the girls I set you up with?

00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:26.160
Or no, I think there was one because we went out, I met with two.

00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:27.759
Well, there was only three on that Tate.

00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:29.519
Yeah.

00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:37.120
Um, one uh maybe asked me about their kid like 30 times, was like quizzing me if I remembered the name of their kid.

00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:41.120
Like we could barely get through a conversation about just regular, like, hi, how are you?

00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:43.360
Like, you know, let's get into an actual conversation.

00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:44.800
It was then I get that.

00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:46.720
Like you hear about people's journeys.

00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:54.399
There are people that, you know, whether they were married before, dating before, some people like I love being a dad, and I knew what I signed up for being a dad.

00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:55.759
It's the best thing in the world, right?

00:04:55.920 --> 00:05:02.480
But you know, there's people on all sides of the equation that you meet as like, oh, my partner's not really a part of my son's life, and that could be men or women.

00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:04.480
But I was like getting tested constantly.

00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:12.000
If I remembered the name of, I'm like, yes, I know that you have one son, I know that he's 13, I know that he has a soccer tournament in Globe, like I'm paying attention.

00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:19.680
Um, had a lot of folks that wanted to ask me just how deep my belief in Christ went, and it was never enough to just be like, okay, yeah, I believe in a higher power.

00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:20.959
Yes, okay, I believe in Jesus.

00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:23.279
Yes, but did you know he died for our sins?

00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:27.120
And so I once again, this is the first 10 minutes of discussion.

00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:34.720
And then the most recent date, which definitely I'm now done done dating for unless it's like introductions from friends.

00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:35.120
Right.

00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:37.199
Unless it's introductions from friends.

00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:46.959
Went to a beautiful restaurant, had a great conversation for about 15, 20 minutes, and then I heard about everything her ex did to ruin her life.

00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:51.680
How him, uh apparently, along with everybody in today's world, is a narcissist.

00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:56.800
And you're listening, you know, you're trying to casually like steer a conversation elsewhere while showing.

00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:04.480
Um, but then at one point she started screaming about something he had done to her about like parent-teacher conferences and a pickup.

00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:07.680
And people at the restaurant thought she was yelling at me.

00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:11.680
So I'm trying to balance this dynamic of, you know, really being present for her.

00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:13.759
Because, you know, you're empathetic, you genuinely care.

00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:19.120
It seems like she went through a lot, but I'm also like, yo, people think you're screaming at me.

00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:20.800
Like, I don't know you.

00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:22.160
Like, I don't want that.

00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:23.120
So, what do you do?

00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:24.000
Get up and leave.

00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:31.120
No, no, I just I gently like touched her hand because she kept pounding the table, talking about this gentleman that that apparently had done her wrong.

00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:36.560
And I just said, Hey, I I'm genuinely listening, but could you please not scream?

00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:39.120
Because I think, and I was trying to be diplomatic.

00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:41.519
It's not, I think people were looking at us.

00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:44.160
A lot of people in the restaurant were looking at us.

00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:47.199
And so I just kind of put dating on the backburn.

00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:49.360
I mean, when I I was in just let it happen.

00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:51.600
Yeah, I was in a marriage for 10 years.

00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:54.800
I was, you know, with my ex 15 years.

00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:57.360
Like, I didn't have to deal with apps, you know.

00:06:57.439 --> 00:06:57.920
That was it.

00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:01.120
So I did that just enough to be like, what's the lay of the land here?

00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:01.439
Right.

00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:07.439
And then I realized, and I'm very aware of my own stuff too, but I I grew up in the Midwest.

00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:11.519
You don't talk about your ex, you probably don't start conversations with politics and religion.

00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:13.120
Just be genuinely present.

00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:13.360
Right.

00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:14.480
Like I try to be with you.

00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:15.040
You're a friend.

00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:17.680
We're just gonna give a shit about what you say and let it go from there.

00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:19.199
No, I think you're incredible.

00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:27.920
I think you're no, I really think that like you are there's so many uh single guys, there's so many single women, and you just can't find a good guy.

00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:28.319
Yeah.

00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:28.639
Right.

00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:29.519
So that's what they say.

00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:36.160
Like, I think that to find you the right, like I almost partly want to make it like my goal to find you the right person.

00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:41.519
One one thing I've found that works against me is I can't tell people what I do for a living anymore.

00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:42.000
Why?

00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:45.279
Um, one of the first women I went on a date with, and she was brilliant.

00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:49.680
I think she was like a biophysicist, really enjoyed talking to her.

00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:54.560
Um, and then at one point she just said, you know, I don't really think that I could see myself dating somebody like you.

00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:57.600
And I'm like, oh, clutching my pearls, someone like me.

00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:03.040
And she was like, Well, you said that you teach people how to deal with power dynamics and difficult personalities.

00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:05.839
So you basically teach people how to manipulate for a living.

00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:09.279
And I'm like, well, yes, but no.

00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:13.439
I turn like there are many people that use those things for ill-gotten gain.

00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:16.240
Like, I teach people how to deal with people for good.

00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:24.959
You know, we all know, I mean, anybody listening to this in the carpool lane knows that sometimes you have to say a certain thing or do a certain thing to get a result.

00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:30.000
I mean, even with our kids, you know, you have to kind of trick them into eating their vegetables or you have to do this.

00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:36.000
So I just teach people principles around persuasion and influence and behavior change for good reasons.

00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:37.600
You know, but I'm like, really?

00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:40.879
I can't say that I teach communication and persuasion.

00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:42.480
Well, where'd you how'd you go from that?

00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:46.480
Because you were, I mean, back in the day when I met you or 10 years ago or so.

00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:48.320
In fact, I remember when you got engaged.

00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:49.039
Right?

00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:50.320
That was I remember I remember that old.

00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:51.440
That's Australia on the bridge.

00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:52.240
Yeah, good memory.

00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:53.440
You do your research too.

00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:54.879
It wasn't research, I just remember.

00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:59.279
I remember when you went and then you came back, and it was like, whoa, yeah, what a story.

00:08:59.440 --> 00:08:59.600
Yeah.

00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:01.039
Um but you were a trainer.

00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:04.080
You were a strength and conditioning coach, right?

00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:12.240
So from there, and then I remember I remember we were like doing push-ups because you were training me and you said, Hey, I want to ask your advice on something.

00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:12.960
And I said, What?

00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:14.240
And you said, I had an opportunity.

00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:23.759
This is you saying, yeah, an opportunity to go be the Miami Dolphins strength and condition coach or uh able to own your own gym with somebody in LA, I think it was, right?

00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:31.360
And I I and I can't remember what my advice was, but I re if I was to think back then, I would think I would tell you to go to the gym to ownership.

00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:31.919
Yeah, yeah.

00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:32.240
Right.

00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:38.320
Yeah, well, I think I mean, similar to uh like I didn't want to leave Arizona, right?

00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:43.519
And like I think you've had opportunities in New York, and I know you've lived in Cincinnati and Houston and all these things.

00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:46.080
And so that point in my life, I really loved Arizona.

00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:52.799
I had found a niche in what I wanted to do and how I got into strength and conditioning would make a lot more sense of what I do now.

00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:55.279
It led to kind of how I also got out of it.

00:09:55.440 --> 00:10:01.759
I've always been interested in psychology, helping people overcome obstacles, kind of figuring out what drives them, what makes them tick.

00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:09.519
I think early on, that was strength and conditioning related because that was just a tool to help people overcome psychological obstacles.

00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:15.919
And I was an athlete, but as you also know, I nearly lost my life due to poor communication in a healthcare setting.

00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:18.799
So for me, I liked coaching more than anything.

00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:27.759
And so when I was a strength coach, and even during that time that you and I had met, like what I really wanted to do was find like, how can I expand beyond this?

00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:32.159
Because it's great making people bigger, stronger, faster, more agile, all of that.

00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:34.639
But like that wasn't the main thing that I loved.

00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:35.759
I loved the psychology.

00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:43.279
How do I get these guys, men and women, that are worth millions of dollars, who are world-class to do things inherently many of them don't want to do.

00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:45.039
Like Kemp likes to train, right?

00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:45.279
Yeah.

00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:46.559
He'll train two to three times.

00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:47.200
He'll do it.

00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:47.759
Yeah, he loves it.

00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:48.080
Right.

00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:49.919
I mean, this doesn't, this may not surprise you.

00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:53.759
A lot of those guys, and I'm gonna use that term universally, they don't always want to train.

00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:55.120
Like they want to play their sport.

00:10:55.759 --> 00:10:56.480
Oh, they want to play.

00:10:56.799 --> 00:10:57.759
But that but that's also good.

00:10:58.000 --> 00:10:58.559
Yeah, that's fine.

00:10:58.799 --> 00:10:59.039
You're right.

00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:05.279
But like my job as a strength coach was to get them to, you know, you're having them do things that they're inherently not always great at.

00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:11.120
Uh, they may not be great at deceleration technique, or they might be weak in an isometric hold of a certain extra.

00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:18.000
Like, and so my job was to expose them to their weaknesses so that they'd be less likely to get injured, so on and so forth.

00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:21.120
So that took a lot of communication strategy, right?

00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:26.000
Like the easiest way to get people to do something is you have to speak to their self-interest.

00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:29.759
And so they they wanted to play more, they wanted to make more money.

00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:33.840
And so I was always fascinated by what makes people tick.

00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:35.200
That was the through line.

00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:35.519
Okay.

00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:40.960
And so when I wrote conscious coaching, and that took off, that was my first book, and that took off into other industries.

00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:58.000
I was like, holy shit, I'm really now, I have an avenue to do what I really love doing, helping people, no matter what their profession is, what their walk of life is, deal with how to influence, get more effort out of people, uh, deal with difficult personalities, basically help people make more progress.

00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:01.759
So now I do conflict uh resolution stuff with companies.

00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:10.320
I go in and do all kinds of clinics and seminars on everything from how to build buy-in with staff or how to get more out of this person or how to deal with a dickhead boss.

00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:17.200
Ironically, done a lot of relationship counseling now, um, which I thought my credibility on that would have taken a hit, given a lot of people.

00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:19.200
Were you talking about serious like one-on-one with a couple?

00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:24.240
Yeah, I mean, like just people that were coming to me for executive coaching, let's say from a certain company, right?

00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:28.559
And initially they wanted to deal with uh how do I manage this staff and what have you.

00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:32.879
Now they're like, well, can I shift gears and talk to you about some things I'm dealing with with my husband?

00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:35.039
So for me, I loved coaching.

00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:42.240
And I think that's also where like I loved that you had an improv background because I started a lot of what you have to do when you deal with people.

00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:52.240
I would imagine when you're interviewing me or when you're on John Jay and Rich, you have to rely on your background to ask certain questions to understand where to steer that conversation or how to help them.

00:12:52.399 --> 00:13:00.159
So I always love people, and and that's kind of how that convergence took place is how do I help people deal with deep dark shit that they all deal with?

00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:02.799
So let me jump back to manipulation.

00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:08.639
What is a what is a tool that you've used when you're dealing with someone because you're dealing with football players, right?

00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:09.519
I mean, in the beginning.

00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:10.080
In the beginning.

00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:13.200
I know some of the guys you train, big football players, famous football players.

00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:13.600
Sure.

00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:17.200
If they wouldn't do something, is there a trick you use, just kind of like you with your son?

00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:17.600
Yeah.

00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:26.159
So a common uh like question, and this will lead to the example is a coach was asking me recently how I say coach, you mean coach like Yeah, this is a real, this is like a sport example.

00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:29.120
Like, yeah, but when you but when the example, is it a coach that we would know?

00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:31.840
Is it a coach that's yeah, but I can't say the name, just yes.

00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:34.720
You say is it NCAA or N C double A.

00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:35.039
Okay.

00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:35.200
Yeah.

00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:35.840
What sport?

00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:36.159
What sport?

00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:36.879
Football.

00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:37.200
Okay.

00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:49.440
And there are certain things that are not mandatory, just like in the NFL or like NFL, they have uh collective bargaining agreements where certain athletes they can choose whether they show up for certain workouts at certain times, right?

00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:54.799
But this guy's like, how do I incentivize it so they make the right choice?

00:13:55.039 --> 00:14:08.559
They come, they do the workouts, they and I'm like, well, the thing about incentives, whether it's kids, whether it's getting your spouse to put you know their dirty laundry away or maybe cook dinner once a night, like once a week or something, is pay attention to what they already care about.

00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:10.879
For athletes, a lot of that's recognition.

00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:16.320
You know, they want they want a social rewards, they want to be known as the hardest worker, they want to be known as this.

00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:19.279
For certain people, of course, it's money and financial rewards.

00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:22.559
So I'm like, you're not having trouble incentivizing them.

00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:25.360
You're not paying attention to what already incentivizes them.

00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:28.559
And I ask them, what does this person care about the most?

00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:29.360
What do you mean?

00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:29.840
I don't know.

00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:31.519
You ask the coach, not a player.

00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:33.919
What does it because that's what does this player care about the most?

00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:34.159
Yeah.

00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:35.120
And he says, I don't know.

00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:35.440
Yeah.

00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:36.960
And then I push him a little bit more.

00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:41.840
And he's like, well, he wants to be recognized as, you know, he likes being known that he's the hardest worker in the room.

00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:43.679
And I'm like, well, use that against him.

00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.320
All you have to do is use a little of what's called a pooria.

00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.279
And kind of some people would say this is gaslighting.

00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:49.600
Okay.

00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:49.919
Okay.

00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:54.399
But a pooria is like, hey, you consider yourself one of the hardest workers on the team.

00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:58.240
You consider yourself the one of the most dedicated guys on the team.

00:14:58.320 --> 00:14:59.039
You say that, right?

00:14:59.120 --> 00:14:59.360
Yeah.

00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:02.639
Well, then why isn't your ass showing up for the voluntary workouts?

00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:05.039
Set the example that you say you want to set every day.

00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:06.960
So sometimes, I mean, and I do that with my son.

00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:09.039
He wanted to be a T-Rex when he was five.

00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:10.639
I go, buddy, you're not eating your dinner.

00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:12.399
Wouldn't a T-Rex eat all of his dinner?

00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:14.159
You're not gonna be a very big T-Rex.

00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:16.240
So it can be simple things like that.

00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:18.720
But as you know, people are not rational.

00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:21.440
So they'll the I think here's a better answer.

00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:34.159
The least effective way to get somebody to do something, whether it's your mother to go to the gym two days a week, somebody to save money for their retirement, their kids to eat their vegetables, whatever, the least effective way is using logic.

00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:37.120
People don't want stats and all of that.

00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:37.679
They don't.

00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:39.759
People are emotion driven, right?

00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:43.440
They're they're inherently, we're all inherently selfish to a degree.

00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:48.159
I mean, is there anybody that really doesn't know they need to get more sleep, brush their teeth, get outside?

00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:49.840
You can give them all the stats in the world.

00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:50.639
They're not gonna do it.

00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:51.840
That'll make them push back.

00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:52.159
Right.

00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:58.399
So I always try to get them to understand the emotional levers of what makes people do the things that they want to do.

00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:00.240
Yeah, logic is a big pushback for me.

00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:11.120
Like being a firstborn, being a Virgo, like that's uh like there's certain things that fall under that umbrella of being, and sometimes I'll tell my wife when we get in arguments, I'll be like, okay, logically, blah, blah, blah.

00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:12.879
And then I'll sit there and I'll go, it's emotion.

00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:13.919
Yeah, for the emotion.

00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:22.240
Logic is never that our first, when people are like, think logically, that biologically goes against how we're hardwired, right?

00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:29.679
The the amygdala, all these parts of what people colloquially call our like reptilian brain, that makes the decision first.

00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:31.600
And then your vocabulary is awesome.

00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:32.720
I forgot about that, Brett.

00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.080
Our prefrontal cortex is just like, oh no, now do this.

00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:39.440
So somebody gets an iPhone, they don't think, oh, well, this can help me with this.

00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:40.960
And they're like, that shit looks cool.

00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:42.240
They're gonna do this.

00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:44.639
And then they're like, oh, but it would also be good for work.

00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:49.679
So we always go emotion first, human beings, and then we reinforce that with logic.

00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:56.799
So that's logic is the worst way to persuade somebody if you really want to know about how to effectively manipulate.

00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:01.360
And also that term, somebody listening to this has manipulated the volume.

00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:01.759
Right.

00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:04.319
Yeah, they manipulate the thermostat.

00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:06.960
That term just means to wield something skillfully.

00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:08.799
But most people think it's negative.

00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:13.119
Yeah, they think it means to like shit on somebody, you know, or like just do something unethically.

00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:13.279
Right.

00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:15.279
But that's their own experience with that language.

00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:17.039
But where did this all come from for you?

00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:19.920
Like, I mean, you you you were where'd you go to college in Nebraska?

00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:20.880
No, Kansas State.

00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:21.440
Kansas State.

00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:22.960
It came from when I was hospitalized.

00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:25.200
I mean, when I spent that's where you learned everything.

00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:29.359
Yeah, when I was in, I mean, and I don't know how deep you want to go in, I'll cover whatever.

00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:35.599
But I mean, I spent uh collectively eight plus months of my life in an eating disorder hospital as a teenager.

00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:36.000
Right.

00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:37.759
I saw the pictures are unbelievable.

00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:44.480
And you would hear nurses and doctors talk about patients as if they were things.

00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:46.960
Oh, like, can you believe this person's doing this?

00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:50.640
And, you know, it wasn't so much treatment as what's really going on here.

00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:56.240
As you know, with like with addiction or any kind of underlying disorder, it's it's never the thing.

00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:00.000
Like most alcoholics aren't like, oh my God, I love the taste of vodka.

00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:00.240
Right.

00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:04.559
You know, there's something underlying that people are either running towards or running from.

00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:08.319
For me, my eating disorder at that time is I didn't know how to deal with stress.

00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:10.240
Parents were going through a divorce.

00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:13.920
A lot of my friends got into hardcore drugs, things like that.

00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:16.480
Working out was a refuge for me.

00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:18.000
And I took it to an extreme.

00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:21.119
It was how I dealt with anger, it was how I dealt with anxiety.

00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:27.920
I started doing radical dying, eating low-fat uh dieting, eating low fat, low carb, because that's what men's health told me.

00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:29.039
I'm like 14.

00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:36.880
But when I was in this hospital, they're not really worried about the root cause of why this 56-year-old woman's in there or why I'm in there.

00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:44.240
They're just giving you medication, Zoloft, they're tri they're feeding you six, seven thousand calories a day.

00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:51.279
And for me, my interest was always like, how the fuck can people like how is this reality?

00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:52.400
How is this treatment?

00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:57.839
How are these people that are supposed to be caring for people, like, how is this what they think is helpful?

00:18:58.079 --> 00:18:59.759
And they would treat you like shit.

00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:01.839
They would talk down to you, they'd be rude to you.

00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:06.319
And so, like, that was when I started looking at the room of other patients too.

00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:08.480
This woman was the middle of nine children.

00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:11.920
Her eating disorder was a way to get attention early on in her family.

00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:13.759
Another one, husband cheated on her.

00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:18.240
I think I've told you this, a junior Olympic wrestler, his dad beat him after not making weight.

00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:21.119
So every day was a PhD in psychology.

00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:22.480
Are you taking mental notes?

00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:36.640
Are you taking are you like I mean, as much as a 14 to 15 year old, I'm taking mental notes thinking, holy, there's like we have these group therapy sessions, and I'm understanding that these people and that work for the hospital are not really listening.

00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:41.039
And when they leave the room, the patients talk about the real stuff in their lives.

00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:55.200
And I think that was my first understanding of people were very rarely reveal to you what they're thinking, what they want, what they need, unless it's informal or they're in a psychological state where they feel comfortable around you.

00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:58.720
And so that would be another quote unquote ethical use.

00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:16.799
I'm not gonna say that every time I, you know, like manipulation, like the one thing I teach my son, even at this young age, is in essence, if you want somebody to change your behavior or do what you want in a good way, the first step is get them in an emotional state where they're ready to even receive that message.

00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:19.759
You know, it doesn't matter what you have to say.

00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:27.119
If they're stressed or they're coming from some, you know, they've had a bad day or they're defensive, they're not gonna listen to you anyway.

00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:32.640
And you would see these doctors and nurses, a lot of them didn't care about what uh we all had to say.

00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:39.519
In their opinion, you had an eating disorder, it's one size fits all, antidepressants, anti-anxiety, stuff you with food.

00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:41.039
That should cure the issue.

00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:42.720
You know, and it doesn't.

00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:49.200
You know, when you talk about like teaching your son, it kind of gave me things that I do without study.

00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:52.400
Like I there's something that just happens as a human being, right?

00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:54.000
Like I try to make somebody laugh.

00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:54.240
Yeah.

00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:58.960
And when we're laughing, smiling, having a good time, then I ask him for what I need to ask, right?

00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:02.799
You're so that what that would be called an ingratiation tactic.

00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:05.519
You are incredible at this.

00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:08.240
You will use humor to disarm people.

00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:08.559
Uh-huh.

00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:14.640
You you downplay your own intelligence a lot, too, to kind of it's kind of like play a fool to catch a fool.

00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:15.519
You're good at this.

00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:16.319
Yes, you don't.

00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:17.039
I'm very disagreeable.

00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:23.039
Even when I watch you interact with you, you are so filled with humor and joy and a fun energy.

00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:24.799
It's incredibly disarming.

00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:33.359
And so you could have Demi Lovato here, Taylor Swift, Marshall Mathers, and they're all gonna open up to you to a degree because you don't seem like you have an agenda.

00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:34.720
How come you didn't say Eminem?

00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:35.519
You said Marshall Mathers.

00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:37.680
I mean, because I mean Sounds like your friends.

00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:39.359
For all you know, he's a client.

00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:40.000
Have you trained?

00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:40.400
You can't.

00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:41.359
No, no, no, no.

00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:41.839
No.

00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:43.279
Um, but you are good.

00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:45.839
You need to like that is something that I study from you.

00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:49.440
I and I you don't know this, but I've actually used you when I give lectures.

00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:53.039
I talk about, and I I I don't always use your name because I want to respect your privacy.

00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:59.759
But you are incredibly disarming, and your interview style is so organic and natural, and you can tell that you have an impact.

00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:08.319
Prov background because you're loose with it, but you can always take that through line that maybe was 10 minutes ago and bring it back to close something out.

00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:10.319
And that's that's a byproduct of your mind.

00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:19.039
And I would imagine some aspect of your well, it's just that when you when you write a book like conscious coaching, like your your background, you're using a lot what happened to you in the hospital, right?

00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:21.200
But also your college education.

00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:23.200
But like you just came up with the words that I was using.

00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:27.680
Are those words you are those definitions you came up with, or those are real definitions?

00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:29.440
In terms of like, you mean like when I told you what I did.

00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:30.960
It's called ingratiation.

00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:34.400
Yeah, well, that's just like a blend of like I understand there's a wide range of listeners.

00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:38.319
Some people just like the common term, like getting, but that also is a research term.

00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:39.359
Like that's my doctorate.

00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:39.599
Right.

00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:43.920
That's so like I went full nerd as I transitioned into different careers.

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:49.200
Cause I mean, again, my fascination with what makes people tick, and then how can I help others?

00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:53.119
Because I think social connection is the most important thing in this world.

00:22:53.359 --> 00:23:01.599
Like, uh like if I had, I've thought about doing a non-for-profit multiple times where I help kids in school learn how to be better communicators, express their feelings, be more.

00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:03.599
Because of social media and texting and phones.

00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:04.799
I mean, I think that amplifies.

00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:06.799
I feel there's a massive disconnect with the world.

00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:08.079
The social attributes.

00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:09.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:17.279
It's like I read this thing that most kids like uh under 24 haven't been on a date, never talk to anybody at a bar, never do anything.

00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:20.559
I believe like most people under 24 are virgins.

00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:29.359
They they show that all cause mortality now, like when you look at when people that don't get enough sleep or smoke cigarettes and all that, obviously that raises mortality risk.

00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:37.440
They found that poor social connections raise all cause mortality as high, if not higher, than smoking in certain circumstances.

00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:42.720
Because think about that anxiety and depression and feelings of isolation and COVID only amplified that.

00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:59.839
And so, like, my job and what I do for a living actually is teach people social agility, no matter what this person's personality is, and if that person's hard to get to, like, how can you find an in-roads with somebody that seems even the most closed off or neurodiverse or really angry?

00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.519
Because there's a lot of people that, and this is a lot of what my next book is about.

00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:13.680
How do you open up the anti-heroes of the world, the misfits, the underdogs, those of us that oftentimes are kind of looked down on because we're different, they're the most interesting people a lot of times.

00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:15.759
So, will you do drills with these people?

00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:16.799
Yeah, a lot of improv.

00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:19.599
Do a lot of improv drills, like uh uh a freeze tag?

00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:22.799
So we'll do things like that to kind of warm them up, you know.

00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:25.200
But like when we do it, we'll literally put them in scenario.

00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:26.880
Think of athlete scrimmaging.

00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:37.759
So, like, think of Kemp if he was working on a certain drill in a certain scenario, or if if somebody plays another sport, or even like when I box competitively, okay, this round, I want you to work the body.

00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:41.839
We would take somebody and say, what stresses you out or what opens you up?

00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:43.680
What's give me some context?

00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:54.400
And then we'd put them in a role-playing scenario that's like, okay, you have three minutes to try to get this person to just relax, open up, maybe laugh, use anything you can.

00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:56.559
And then we don't give them any tools at the beginning.

00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:58.640
We try to just get an idea of where they're at.

00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:07.119
And then over the course of you know, the hour or the two days, however long the course is, we give them little techniques and tactics and we put them back in those scenarios.

00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:10.400
But you do this to them in front of other people.

00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:11.599
See, that's like so.

00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:13.519
I I do you know who Jesse Itzler is?

00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:14.480
Uh I've heard his name.

00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:15.279
He used to come.

00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:17.039
Wait, he came to Exos a couple times ago.

00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:19.039
Did he he's the guy triathlete?

00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:20.240
Oh, he's definitely a runner.

00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:20.480
I know.

00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:21.119
Yeah, runner.

00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:25.039
He's a guy who's like um he started Zico Coconut Water.

00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:26.720
He started uh a bunch of different companies.

00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:27.680
I maybe think somebody else.

00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:31.920
He's a really now he's speaking and doing he's like you know, he's just on tour.

00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:38.880
I've met him a few times, and I went to his house in Georgia in how it was a little town called what town was it?

00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:40.720
Some little town outside of outside of Atlanta.

00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:42.720
And I met his house, there was about 20 of us.

00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:46.880
And it was a sauna cold plunge day.

00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:47.599
Yeah, right.

00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:49.200
So I'm excited to be there.

00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:50.480
You got a whole retreat he's running?

00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:52.000
A little retreat for one day.

00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:53.839
It was like one day, get there, whatever it was invitable.

00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:54.319
It was really cool.

00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:55.759
For elites, but for what?

00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:57.440
For elites, for like high class people.

00:25:57.680 --> 00:25:59.039
No, it was no, no, no, no.

00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:09.519
There was 20 of us, but there was like you know, 19, 20 year olds, there was a lady who lost her house in the Palisade Fire, there was a couple athletes, you know, and then it was me, and I, you know, I didn't fit in.

00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:14.079
And uh, I was sitting there and it was he was talking, and it was so interesting to hear this guy speak.

00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:23.039
And then he says, where someone like me, my stomach just uh oh, he says, I want everybody to get up here and stand up in front of the group and tell us your story.

00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:24.319
Oh, that's brutal for anybody.

00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:25.680
Yeah, I wouldn't want to say that.

00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:28.160
Yeah, oh my God, I didn't sign up for I don't want to.

00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:30.720
If I would have known we're gonna do that, I don't want to come here.

00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:33.599
I I want I didn't, I was praying to God it wouldn't come to me.

00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:39.680
And at one point, they they go around, we're sitting on a hill in his backyard, and we're they're going, This person is going, this person's going.

00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:46.079
Then it's coming to me, and the guy next to me, this guy right here, he taps me on the knee and he goes, You're gonna be okay.

00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:47.519
He goes, You're gonna be okay.

00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:52.000
And I thought it was so weird, like he could tell that I was like so stressed.

00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:52.720
Yeah, paying attention.

00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:54.480
And then I got up there and I did it, and I was fine.

00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:56.079
But it's like this is what you do for a living.

00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:57.279
Yeah, but it's it's not.

00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:59.920
It's like I sit in a room, in a little room with people that I know.

00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:02.799
When you're out of context, and I think too, go ahead.

00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:03.680
And I think talk about it.

00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:04.240
That's it.00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:06.160


It was just so I can't imagine.00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:09.359


Think of that person next time you say, hey, in front of the group, get up and tell yourself.00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:10.720


We want you to get up and do it all.00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.880


Uh yeah, we are so we don't do it like that so much as, and I probably did a poor job explaining.00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:15.599


Very poor.00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:17.119


We'll break them, we'll break them out.00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:20.720


So let's say everybody in this room was doing it, or let's say there was eight people in the room.00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:24.960


We won't bring people up and be like, in front of everybody, mortal combat fight, you know.00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:27.119


We we have them break off.00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:32.079


And we what we do is we we create very low stakes situations early on.00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:38.079


And then just again, like athletes, and this is where my background as a coach helped, you know, it'd be like somebody comes in the weight room the first time.00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:40.400


You don't throw them into a murder workout.00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:45.039


You know, you're like, hey, let's make sure your squat form's good and let's do this, let's set you up for success.00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:50.799


So we we warm them up into it, you know, we may, and then we make sure that everybody's spread out.00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:51.920


We'll say divide up.00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:59.759


Like we just did this with the Texas Rangers during spring training, uh, their staff and and uh some members of their front office and the Boston Red Sox as well.00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:01.680


We've done stuff like this out at Apple.00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:08.480


And so we'll we'll kind of set the stakes for them, low stakes, and then we'll say divide up, find a partner, lock and load.00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:10.799


And when you say that, it's give giving you the point of view.00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:12.079


I'm gonna sorry to interrupt you.00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:12.720


No, you're fine.00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:14.400


But to be like uh find a partner.00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:15.920


Oh God, I don't know anybody here.00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:16.880


Why do I gotta find a partner?00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:18.480


Yeah, I'd rather you tell me that's my guy.00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:19.680


But we'll do that for some good.00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:24.400


So like I'm giving you the point of view of someone who's insecure, antisocial, introvert for most part.00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:27.599


Yeah, no, I'm like when I go to church, growing up, when I go to church, I was Catholic.00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:31.119


When they did Peace Be With You, you know the part of the hard, yeah, it was the worst.00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:33.680


Now, as an adult, when I know it's coming, that's when I go to the bathroom.00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:34.160


That's smart.00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:36.799


Yeah, and then sometimes I'll come to the bathroom, I come back and they hadn't done it yet.00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:37.759


And I'm like, oh my God.00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:43.119


Well, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I think something that like so one of when you had me on for the speed dating, and I'm thinking of the idea.00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:44.160


You were great, you were great.00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:44.880


Thanks.00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:46.799


Um, but I had never done anything like that.00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:52.640


And I'm like, what's one question that could teach me a lot about somebody without them feeling like they've been interrogated?00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:53.599


Because that stuff's important.00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:55.119


I don't want to feel that on the date.00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:56.480


Yeah, no, no, no, no.00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:58.160


You you wanted me to have some questions.00:28:58.319 --> 00:28:58.960


Oh, right, right, right.00:28:59.200 --> 00:28:59.279


Right?00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:00.240


Yeah, yeah.00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:14.240


And one question that I asked that I made sure to answer myself first, that that relates back to what you're just saying, that existential dread of like, oh my God, I don't want to was what's one thing most people misunderstand about you?00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:18.079


And there were some interesting answers on the speed dating, if you remember.00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:20.640


But I thought, well, what is that for me first?00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:23.039


Because I always turn my own stuff on me first.00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:27.039


There's nothing I teach that I I like to turn myself inside out.00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:33.680


I have just the right amount of self-hate because like I've turned myself every which way.00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:36.880


I know all my flaws, I know all of this.00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:45.759


And um, I'm like, well, I think what most people misunderstand about me is that I like to talk a lot or that I want to be the center of attention.00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:46.400


I don't.00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:51.519


I don't want to, I would, I would be the same way if you were on if I was on that couch.00:29:51.680 --> 00:30:03.839


Because in my context of what I do, I have to be that center of attention because I'm being paid to speak or consult or, you know, and I have to be on sometimes for two to three days at a time teaching.00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:07.279


When I'm not in that context, I'm kind of reclusive.00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:11.680


Like if you were ever around me without microphones on, whatever, like I'm boring.00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:13.920


I'm I like to chill at home.00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:15.599


I like to go hike alone.00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:17.200


I like to yeah.00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:23.920


I mean, like if I had when I was with a partner, I'd have, but like I very much like my solitude and I'm chill.00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:25.119


Like I had to go.00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:28.799


I uh do you know CB Dolloway used to fight in the UFC?00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:31.200


I feel no, I'm really nice guy.00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:38.240


Sounds familiar, but yeah, he's retired now, but his daughter turned one and he was like, Oh, I'd love you to come and meet my daughter, and I'd love you to meet my wife.00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:40.319


And of course, as a friend, I want to do those things.00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:42.240


So this is not a reflection of C B.00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:49.759


But the fact that I had to go be social on a Saturday night on a rare case that I wasn't teaching or anything like that, I was like, I don't want to do this.00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:54.079


I want to just stay home, probably rewatch Game of Thrones or success.00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:55.519


How long are you there for?00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:56.880


Two and a half hours.00:30:57.039 --> 00:30:58.319


Oh man, that's a long time.00:30:58.480 --> 00:30:58.799


Yeah.00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:02.640


But you know, I then what I try to do is just make it about other people.00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:02.960


Right.00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:05.920


I, you know, I try to ask his wife a lot of questions, genuinely.00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:07.039


I give a shit.00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:09.920


Um, same reason I would rather not talk about myself the whole time.00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:10.880


I'd rather talk about you.00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:14.799


You have an absolutely intriguing story, and every time I'm around you, it's always about me.00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:16.000


Well, I'm interviewing you.00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:17.359


It's a conversation then.00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:18.799


You know what I was gonna ask you this?00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:19.440


Maybe this is really stupid.00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:20.559


Look at he did it so ready.00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:22.240


No, no, I was thinking about your book, Conscious Coaching.00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:25.920


First of all, I I always have the visual of Tom Hanks holding that book up from Instagram.00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:26.720


That is so cool.00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:27.279


How'd that happen?00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:29.200


Was that do me a favor, hold this up?00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:33.279


Or I think uh a friend of a friend of a friend made something happening.00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:33.839


You know what I mean?00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:34.480


That's so good.00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:35.519


Yeah, that's so good.00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:36.400


But it's like that.00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:37.279


So that's an example.00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:38.160


Can I interrupt you real quick?00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:38.799


Yes, yes, yes.00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:43.279


That's an example of something that I'm horrible at sometimes, or that um marketing.00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:48.079


I'm not horrible at it, but like it, like the average person, it makes me uncomfortable.00:31:48.240 --> 00:32:00.240


So for my next book, the one that comes out this December, we just got a four-star general, Stanley McChrystal, who led the uh special task force for the United States against Al-Qaeda to write an endorsement.00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:06.960


Steven Pressfield, who wrote The Legend of Bagger Vance and a book that inspired the movie 300, wrote an endorsement for the book.00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:24.960


And I had to reach out to these folks and find the right way to convey genuine respect, make my book make sense to them in the shortest amount of time possible to not waste their time, and then ask two people who are world-renowned who don't know me to read my manuscript and endorse it.00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:28.480


That terrifies me like it would the average person.00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:32.160


So you you reached out to the general on your own through a friend, a friend of a friend?00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:41.920


Well, my editor knew his editor, okay, and I said, I want to, I would really love based on what this book talks about, to see if we could get an endorsement.00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:48.880


Now, mind you, I have certain people that are like behavioral economists at university.00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:50.480


They're like, I don't have time.00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:51.519


Or there's another thing.00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:53.839


Oh, I get shut down all the time.00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:54.240


Right.00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:59.279


And and like then there are some that are like, uh, I don't do blurbs.00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:04.559


You know, they've apparently gotten to such celebrity status, they've forgotten what it's been like to do this.00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:06.640


And you know, like you come with humility.00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:10.000


I could sit here and name drop and whatever, but like I know you can.00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:14.480


I like, but it's tough because you have to choose people that relate to the material.00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:22.880


It's not like I would just like cold reach out to Josh Brolin and be like, hey, I have a book called The Anti-Hero Advantage when you you have to understand their world and reach out to them.00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:24.160


But like that stuff is not comfortable.00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:26.720


You can reach out to them and ask them to give you a blurb as Thanos.00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:27.599


Exactly.00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:29.039


Well, because that was a misunderstood.00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:45.519


And so that's the thing that again I admire you for is you think about all the people you've interviewed, whether as part of John Jay and Rich or your own endeavors, you have to find the through line and the thing that they care about and find a way to open them up and make them feel genuinely cared for, interested in.00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:49.680


And I think it works for you, unlike a lot of people, because you are genuinely interested.00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:51.599


But that takes a lot out of you, does it not?00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:52.720


Sometimes exhausting.00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:53.359


That's what I mean.00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:53.680


Yeah.00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:55.279


Like what you said about Saturday night.00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:56.240


That would have wiped me out.00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:56.720


Yeah.00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:57.200


Right?00:33:57.440 --> 00:33:58.160


But you did, yeah.00:33:58.319 --> 00:33:58.480


Yeah.00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:03.039


I and that's I think something that what's something miss most people misunderstand about you.00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:04.960


You know what?00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:05.599


That's a good question.00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:07.440


But I try to be an open book as much as I can.00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:08.159


So I don't know.00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:10.559


Sometimes it has nothing to do with not being open.00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:13.760


Well, people think that I'm a I'm an extrovert, and I don't think I am.00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:15.760


I think I'm very far from that.00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:20.239


Like, I like the happiest I am is when I'm totally bored.00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:20.880


Yeah.00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:22.639


That's the happiest that makes sense.00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:26.320


I got a new couch today, and I've been working on this couch trying to find a couch for three months.00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:33.440


It got delivered today, and I sat on the couch and I had a tub of yogurt and I turned on the TV, and I thought, this is freaking awesome.00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:34.239


I would love that.00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:37.280


Do you know that I had about two minutes where I had to turn it off and go?00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:37.599


Yeah.00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:39.519


But those two minutes were freaking awesome.00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:43.760


Well, and like didn't when you came on my podcast, I think you were talking about you sit in the hot tub in the mornings.00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:44.320


I still do.00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:46.079


So that's oh, go ahead.00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:49.360


Yeah, no, I when I so when I get up in the morning, I have a little routine.00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:51.519


Part of it is I I I have it put a gym in my house.00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:53.519


So I do, I don't want to call it a workout.00:34:53.599 --> 00:34:55.920


I do I try to, you know, movement is medicine.00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:56.079


Yeah.00:34:56.320 --> 00:34:59.920


So I try to get my body moving every way possible so that the blood's moving and everything trampoline.00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:01.440


Yeah, the trampoline.00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:10.480


Then I go and I get in the hot tub, and in the hot tub, I take time in there to out loud go over to the things I'm grateful for in my life.00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:11.119


At 3 a.m.00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:12.000


At 3 a.m.00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:17.039


And I do it out loud, and there's nobody there, and I look at the stars, and I just feel it total peace.00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:18.159


It's like my time.00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:19.840


Then I get in the cold plunge.00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:24.559


Then when I'm driving to work, I don't have anything on in the car, and I just and I do it again out loud.00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:26.960


A little bit more spiritual, where I'm talking to God.00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:27.119


Yeah.00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:28.320


Or I talk to my parents.00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:29.760


My both my parents have passed.00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:36.159


So I talk to my parents on the way to work, and it gives me this like this reset every day that I that I do.00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:36.880


You know what I mean?00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:40.639


Yeah, without a that's that's what I was gonna, and there's a lot of connection points of that.00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:45.280


The one thing, this was another question I asked in the speed dating, is like, what's one thing that instantly relaxes you?00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:46.880


For me, that's a hot tub as well.00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:50.079


I'll sit in the hot tub and I do like to do the same thing.00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:55.679


I mean, people think I like certain friends think I'm touched because I'll sit out there and look at the stars for like three hours in the hot tub.00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:57.599


I'm like, no, this is just like amazing.00:35:57.760 --> 00:35:58.400


Yeah, it's great.00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:03.360


And when we taught this, we I taught a course called Imperfect Relationships, and it was like a play on words.00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:08.000


The I am is like, it looks like I'm perfect because you know everybody wants bullshit, like their relationships.00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:11.119


Just Instagram, pray here's all our fall photos, here's this.00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:15.920


In the meantime, you know, they have like a sex dungeon downstairs and they haven't let their husband speak in three weeks.00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:19.519


Um, so like there's the dark bread.00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:21.039


Yeah, oh, we can go anywhere.00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:25.679


We can go if I didn't do what I did now, I would be a criminal profiler or a sex therapist.00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:26.320


Wow, yeah.00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:33.119


But um, we're talking about something I wish I would have known earlier in my relationship, is what's called a hot zone.00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:38.000


One thing that I definitely needed to work on is I'd get home from teaching two days.00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:40.239


I'd be traveling, what have you, I'd be on all the time.00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:42.239


And this relates to what we've been talking about.00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:47.440


And I'm kind of like a hot nerve then, because people will hit me with really hard questions.00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:50.960


And I want to make sure I'm OCD about trying to help people with their prop.00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:52.239


That's what they pay me to do.00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:54.559


So I put a lot of pressure on myself.00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:58.480


So when I come home from two days of teaching, I just kind of need to unwind.00:36:58.559 --> 00:36:59.840


I need to decompress.00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:07.119


And there would be times where my now ex-wife would come out and try to tell me like what was on the slate for Monday and the next week.00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:10.400


And I'd be like, yo, like not, you know, this is not a great time.00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:11.440


And I realized, you know what?00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:16.159


I had not done a good enough job at labeling, you assume your partner knows these things.00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:18.079


And that's the worst thing in communication.00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:19.039


It sure is.00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:20.559


It's the worst thing in communication.00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:25.440


And I'm like, so when we put together this course, I was like, everybody needs to do something called hot zones.00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:34.239


Go to your spouse or your partner or somebody you're dating or your sex slave and say, hey, here are three, here are three times where it's probably not great.00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:39.840


And not because I don't love you or care for you or respect you, but because I'm wound up or I need to decompress.00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:44.639


And so one of those was like the signal for me is if I'm in the hot tub, just know that I'm probably kind of chilling.00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:50.159


And that's not, you can talk to me and I would love to listen to you, but don't tell me what I have coming up.00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:55.280


And I think that was especially because I had my doctorate going, the book, and this book took me forever.00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:59.199


And then I have my day job, and you know, you have all the things as a dad.00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:01.599


And so you need some time to just chill.00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:07.599


And so I think that's a worthwhile thing for anybody listening, is think of the three things that you would tell somebody you love or care about.00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:11.039


These are times where I probably just it's not that I don't love you, but look at that.00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:12.480


Well, in other words, you got to communicate.00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:13.840


You gotta communicate and everything.00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:14.400


Yeah, yeah.00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:17.039


Um, your book, well, we get back to what I say about conscious coaching.00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:20.480


So this is maybe a stupid question, but I've always tried to get the vibe of when you're writing a book.00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:25.519


Are you had you have your laptop open and you're just like, are you going chapter one?00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:28.320


When I was in, like, are you like are you just going to be?00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:31.039


So conscious coaching was very different than this most recent book.00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:33.280


Um, so do you want me to answer what it's like most recently now?00:38:33.679 --> 00:38:36.559


I want to go conscious coaching first because that's a book that's out, was very successful.00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:39.119


In fact, I have to do let me uh we're we're both AD.00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:40.159


This book's out now, too.00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:41.360


Oh, they said pre-order.00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:44.320


Yeah, that it'll be in bookstores and airports December.00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:45.519


It's available for pre-order now.00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:46.239


What's it called?00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:49.119


The anti-hero advantage through Penguin Random House.00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:49.599


Okay, hold on.00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:50.719


Oh, that's so legit, dude.00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:51.599


You're so big time.00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:52.400


Oh, yeah.00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:54.400


You are controls me so bad.00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:55.360


What are you talking about?00:38:56.079 --> 00:38:58.159


Most people write a book, it's self-published on Amazon.00:38:58.320 --> 00:38:58.480


Yeah.00:38:59.039 --> 00:38:59.679


That was my first one.00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:01.039


It took that to get this deal.00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:04.559


So what you got so you so conscious coaching goes out, it's huge.00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:06.800


And then Penguin Random House reaches out to you?00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:07.920


Well, that's not how that went.00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:10.480


Which question do you want me to answer first so I can respect your process?00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:11.199


Oh, I don't care.00:39:11.679 --> 00:39:12.480


Okay, wait, wait, wait, okay.00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:13.440


Let me answer this one first.00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:14.719


Oh, I'm gonna jump around.00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:20.079


My my trainer that I have now, who has a very similar background to you, he's incredible.00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:24.320


He is he is so starstruck that I know you.00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:25.199


He shouldn't be.00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:27.440


He so I actually invited him to come here today.00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:28.159


He said no.00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:29.039


He got out of the shit.00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:30.239


He said yes, he's in here.00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:32.320


He said yes, and then he freaked out and said no.00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:32.880


Why?00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:34.400


Because you're you're the guy.00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:35.760


Oh, I just disappoint him.00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:38.320


You you're the guy, like he came up this right behind you.00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:40.480


Like he even talked about he met you one time.00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:41.760


He's such a great guy.00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:42.559


You would love this guy.00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:44.159


It'd be like uh Robert Downey Jr.00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:45.039


in Tropic Thunder.00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:47.599


I'm the dude pretending to be the other dude playing this deal.00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:49.119


He was so so anyway.00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:50.079


I wanted to tell you that.00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:50.719


His name's Chris.00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:51.760


Maybe you can leave Chris a note.00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:52.880


Yeah, well, Chris a note.00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:53.679


Tell Chris something.00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:55.840


In my illustrious five-year-old handwriting.00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:56.960


Chris, you should have came.00:39:57.119 --> 00:39:57.280


Yeah.00:39:57.440 --> 00:39:58.079


You should have came.00:39:58.239 --> 00:39:58.320


Yeah.00:39:58.480 --> 00:39:58.719


Okay.00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:02.320


Now, how'd you get how'd you get this publishing place?00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:04.880


Uh yeah, it was not a fun process.00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:07.360


So I reached out to, I knew I had something to say.00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:11.599


Like, I don't think you should ever write a book unless something's like actually tearing out your soul.00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:13.519


And a lot of stuff was for a long time.00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:16.800


And then also just transitioning out of what I used to do to what I knew now.00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:18.000


It was important for me.00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:21.840


Like, I wanted to have something that was kind of a springboard for that, right?00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:25.119


And allow me to kind of advance into working with the audiences I do more of.00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:28.639


But long story short, I reached out to a buddy, asked if he knew any agents.00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:29.920


This is after conscious coaching.00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:32.400


Yeah, I wrote my first book in 2017.00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:35.920


Um, I got told many times I was a pissant nobody.00:40:36.079 --> 00:40:39.840


Uh, publishers had no idea what a strength coach was, right?00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:46.960


Like, because a lot of people that write books through either former tech people or military people or surgeons or their famous TED Talk people or whatever.00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:51.360


Um, uh almost every publisher I talked to is like, what's a strength coach?00:40:51.519 --> 00:40:55.039


Why would we pick up a niche book written for strength coaches?00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:57.280


Which at the time, to be fair, it was.00:40:57.519 --> 00:40:59.760


But then it got picked up with a huge crossover.00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:01.440


It's kind of like the inner game of tennis.00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:02.239


Yeah, exactly.00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:02.480


Right?00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:02.800


Yeah, yeah.00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:06.000


It's like any game, like when you look at your bookshelf, it's really like any book.00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:12.159


You know, I have a million books by people in so many different trades, and it's never about, oh, I need to own a restaurant.00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:14.400


It's what is this book fundamentally about?00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:15.440


Same with film, right?00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:19.840


Doesn't one of your sons like work at a movie store or movie theater or like love and we did he did work in movie theater?00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:20.480


He did, right?00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:21.039


Jake?00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:21.679


Yeah, right.00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:31.039


So, like movies, you can go see a movie like a Star Wars movie, and it's not really about whatever the Star Wars shit is, it's fundamentally a movie about a relationship or treachery or whatever.00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:39.840


So, conscious coaching was really about like in in many fields that are obsessed with X's and O's, whatever that is, you could build rockets, like the technical part.00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:41.760


How do you come back to the human piece?00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:45.280


And how do you deal with different personality archetypes?00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:48.079


Because you're gonna do that, whether you're working at NASA or what have you.00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:55.679


So, yes, by the I self-published that by the grace of God, at some point it outsold like Dan Rather and Phil Knight.00:41:55.760 --> 00:41:58.400


I have the screenshots to prove it for haters and all the science fake.00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:00.400


Yeah, I outsold Shoe Dog at one point in time.00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:01.920


Shoe dog's a great book.00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:02.719


I mean, great book.00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:05.199


This is not me telling you my book's better than Shoe Dog.00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:06.239


Stop, I know.00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:13.920


And so all of a sudden this book started picking up steam, and I get invited to go here and there, and I'm like, oh shit, like I need to like actually.00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:18.239


I came from a profession that meant the mentality is like a coal miner.00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:22.400


You're told when you're a strength coach, you are to be seen, not heard.00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:26.880


If you have a brand, you're a sellout, first in, last out, be miserable.00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:31.760


I got told that I would be blacklisted from that industry if for writing a book.00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:33.519


It's just it's that kind of industry.00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:34.800


People love being miserable.00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:37.199


So at this point, like I just embrace it.00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:40.480


I start speaking, I build a different company, the one that I run now.00:42:40.639 --> 00:42:44.320


And so I had reached out to some other people saying, hey, I'm thinking about writing another book.00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:48.159


Conscious coaching, you know, has been translated into six languages.00:42:48.239 --> 00:42:50.480


It sold well over a hundred thousand copies.00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:55.360


And I got people that I thought were friends telling me my agent won't touch you.00:42:55.519 --> 00:43:00.960


They only like career writers like a Ryan Holiday, or people that write book after, but they don't want.00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:02.079


And I'm like, time out.00:43:02.239 --> 00:43:03.360


And I genuinely didn't understand.00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:04.480


Ryan Holliday, he's the stoic.00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:05.440


Yeah, the stoic guy.00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:07.679


Or just people that what they do is just write books.00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:08.239


Right, right, right.00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:09.440


All they do is write books.00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:14.559


They might speak periodically, but they're not out actually like doing the thing they write about.00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:15.599


They're writing about it.00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:17.360


And that's not to demean Ryan Holliday.00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:18.800


It's just he's that's what he does.00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:21.920


And um, and so I'm like, time out.00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:31.119


I'm getting like blacklisted because I'm actually out there teaching members of the military and organizations how to deal with the dark side of leadership.00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:35.199


But like, because I'm not a career author, like your agent won't talk to me.00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:37.599


So that went and went and went eventually.00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:42.719


Somebody who's actually the son of the agent who represents John Grisham.00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:43.679


Okay.00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:44.800


And and who knows?00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:45.840


You know, I I like him.00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:52.239


He's a great guy now, but maybe he's just his dad was like, take this piss aunt client and get him off our so his son was getting into the agent.00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:54.159


Oh, wow.00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:56.800


The agent of John Grisham, his son is my agent.00:43:56.960 --> 00:43:57.199


Okay.00:43:57.360 --> 00:43:58.800


And I think he just took a shot on me.00:43:58.880 --> 00:43:59.760


I at some point I'm gonna.00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:03.760


Get him drunk and find out the real story of like he uh does he have lots of clients?00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:21.039


I don't I like we don't we haven't gotten to that line he keeps everything very uh we're friends enough that I give him shit for going to a Glow Rilla concert and being the whitest guy that I know in my life, and you know, but like you you very much still get that sense, and I wouldn't care if he heard this that like he's waiting to see what this book does.00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:21.519


Right.00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:25.119


And so first they didn't believe me that conscious coaching did what it did.00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:28.480


So I had to like open up the kimono and show them the Amazon stuff.00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:32.880


I had to write a 50-page like proposal of why I think people will give a shit about this book.00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:36.079


They want to know everything about superficial because they want their money back.00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:44.639


And then you pitch them on the book, they send it out to publishers, and you sit down behind Zoom and you're like, all these publishers are like, why should we give a shit?00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:45.599


Why should we do this?00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:46.639


And I pitched the book.00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:51.440


I said, listen, there's a lot of books written about kind of bullshitty leadership stuff.00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:55.119


Just be charismatic and positive, and it's gonna solve all your issues.00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:56.880


Like you and I know that's not the case.00:44:57.039 --> 00:44:58.639


The world is a dark place.00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:05.119


There is a lot of egos and dipshits and personalities, and people will not always say yes to you.00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:07.280


As a matter of fact, the majority of the time they're not.00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:09.679


And I don't think there's a book that tells people how to deal with that.00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:14.079


And I think it relates to 13-year-old girls who can't figure out why their friends are being catty.00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:20.320


And I think it uh also relates to CEOs who need to understand how to get their team of people back on track.00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:21.840


And they're like, we love it.00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:22.880


So Wow.00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:23.920


So what's it called again?00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:26.320


The anti-hero advantage.00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:26.719


Okay.00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:28.000


It's on Amazon right now.00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:30.480


So who are some famous anti-heroes?00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:31.840


Uh Walter White.00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:32.960


And I think that's a good point.00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:34.559


So, like, that was one of their concerns.00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:34.880


Right.00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:42.400


They didn't want to name it that because they thought people would think of Walter White, who technically would be uh an anti-villain or more villainous.00:45:42.559 --> 00:45:43.280


So Walter White was.00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:44.400


You're rooting for him, though.00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:54.239


Well, at the beginning, right, you know, and I like with marketing, no, no, this was stuff that they push me on because we're like, we can't have people think that you're writing a book telling people to be assholes.00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:54.480


Right.00:45:55.039 --> 00:45:56.800


And I'm like, well, that's not what the book is about.00:45:56.960 --> 00:46:07.199


The book is simply this do we or do we not have a lot of narratives of what a leader or a hero or a good person or a great person should look like, be like an actor.00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:07.440


Right.00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:07.840


Yeah.00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:13.679


They all have to have this perfect morning routine and they can't, they have to be brave and always know the right thing and be super well communicated.00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:14.320


Positive.00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:15.840


And that's know the janitor.00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:18.559


Know the CEO knows the janitor, CEO knows everything, C knows everything.00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:18.880


Yeah, right.00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:20.880


And that's not actually the case.00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:27.599


If you look at people like um Winston Churchill, right, had uh depression, was pretty much an alcoholic.00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:48.239


You look at even Martin Luther King Jr., had some mental illness in his past, you look at all these people that nobody's ever really told you the real story about, but there's a lot of research that shows that darkness, that struggle, those things that made them less than in some people's eyes, is actually what helped them be tremendous leaders in a given context.00:46:48.559 --> 00:46:52.159


And so you know what it reminds me of a little bit of Tim Grover.00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:54.880


I've never Tim Grover was Michael Jordan's trainer.00:46:55.119 --> 00:46:57.280


Okay, and he talks about the dark side.00:46:57.679 --> 00:46:58.400


In what context?00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:05.119


Uh the dark side of there's certain athletes, the best of the best of the best, Tiger Woods, dark side.00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:06.800


Yeah, they have to have a certain other thing.00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:08.239


Dike dark side, yeah.00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:12.239


But also keep in mind that also applies to the 38-year-old woman in the carpool lane right now.00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:19.519


And like for some, when I talk about an anti-hero, essentially I'm talking about somebody that they have a good balance, right?00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:28.159


They can be empathetic, they can be loving, they can be caring, but they also know when to dial up that ethical dark side and be a little bit more assertive and set a boundary.00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:30.480


Ethical dark side and tell somebody to piss off.00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:30.719


Right.00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:31.119


Yeah, yeah.00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:33.599


That's what so what you're saying is it's okay to have that side.00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:34.400


You have to.00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:34.800


Right.00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:40.559


We in society, my soapbox is this we need more balanced, socially agile people.00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:46.079


Jake, Kemp, and Dutch need to know how to be gentlemen and thoughtful and loving.00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:55.760


And they also need to know when to put the foot down and step a stand up for something and be a steward of like, you know, a good steward of your community doesn't mean just doing things for people all the time.00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:56.880


It means setting boundaries.00:47:56.960 --> 00:47:57.920


It means so good.00:47:58.239 --> 00:48:02.000


And so, like for me, my version of that, like I'm naturally assertive.00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:04.000


I don't have a problem with that.00:48:04.639 --> 00:48:11.679


My my balance where I have to balance more of that anti-hero kind of ethos, is sometimes I have to be a bit more patient.00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:13.920


I need to be a bit more calm, right?00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:16.239


Like, what would say is your balance of opposites?00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:18.159


What's your more natural state?00:48:18.239 --> 00:48:19.840


Give me some terms that would describe you.00:48:20.079 --> 00:48:21.119


My more natural state?00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:25.760


Yeah, like I just said I tend to be more assertive, I tend to be more direct.00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:28.079


Give me some two or three things that describe you.00:48:28.239 --> 00:48:37.519


I think I'm well, I mean, I I I think I'm insecure about stuff because I like I wish I could put my foot down, like you're saying, but I'm afraid of the backlash.00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:38.960


Okay, so that's a great example.00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:49.360


So, and this would be most people, whether they, and I'm not saying you identify as this, but a lot of our audience, a lot of my audience are overthinkers, people pleasers, huge overthinker for me, huge.00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:50.239


All of that.00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:56.159


Um, some of them will be avoidant because they don't want to piss people off or are afraid of the backlash.00:48:56.400 --> 00:49:03.119


In the book, we give them tools of saying, hey, here are some things that you actually need to integrate because you have an alter ego in you.00:49:03.280 --> 00:49:12.480


You have an alter ego in you, whether it's Deborah or John Jay or Michael, whatever, that really you know that there's this part of you that you've been waiting to let off the leash.00:49:12.639 --> 00:49:14.079


And we give you tools to do that.00:49:14.239 --> 00:49:15.599


Here's how you can actually integrate that.00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:16.239


That's brilliant.00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:17.360


Wait, okay, anti-hero what?00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:18.880


The anti-hero advantage.00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:22.159


The anti-hero anti or anti-does it matter, anti-hero.00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:22.800


Anti-hero.00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:24.800


Yeah, plus it's a Tito Swift song.00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:25.440


Yeah, I didn't know that.00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:26.960


Every social media post you made.00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:28.400


Now everybody's gonna think.00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:28.639


Yeah.00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:30.400


Hey, it's me, I'm the problem.00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:31.119


That's her song.00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:32.639


So those are the two parts of the book.00:49:32.719 --> 00:49:37.119


How do I get over this version of my how do I become a more balanced version of myself?00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:40.320


If you are a people pleaser, overly analytical, whatever.00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:43.519


Like, what's this kind of ulterior mindset you can build?00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:52.239


Oh, and then also how do you deal with the world as it is and the people in it, knowing how do I deal with difficult personalities, egos, attitudes, and agendas?00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:53.199


So, how'd you write it?00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:57.119


Like when like again, did you have a laptop open and you're like chapter one?00:49:57.519 --> 00:49:58.800


Sporadically, because I have a date.00:49:58.880 --> 00:50:01.920


I mean, I you know, I don't have a guaranteed income running a business.00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:06.079


And so this isn't like uh uh JK Rowling.00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:10.800


I didn't get to abscond to a castle with my huge advance and be like that cat gif.00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:13.840


Um, so a mix, yes, sometimes with a laptop.00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:25.519


Main thing is my home office, which looks like somewhere between a nightmare and a laboratory, because I have research papers everywhere or other books and you're researching this.00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:26.480


That's what I'm saying.00:50:26.559 --> 00:50:27.760


Like it just doesn't come from your head.00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:30.320


Sure, some of it does, but your core message does.00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:34.320


Do you know off the top of your head the first few words of your of your in this case?00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:34.960


I did, yeah.00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:36.880


Because I had very strong feelings about shit.00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:43.199


Like you're like the very first words of the original manuscript, because the editor, you know, kind of took them out.00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:44.400


They have their version of it.00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:46.159


Uh how many pages is it?00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:49.199


Uh 65,000 words, 272 pages.00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:50.159


You have a hard limit.00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:50.800


Is it done?00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:51.519


Yeah, it's done.00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:53.119


So why do you have to wait till December?00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:53.599


Why can't it be?00:50:57.280 --> 00:50:59.360


Why are we not able to see Avengers Doomsday today?00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:04.639


Well, that's all that's to me, I think, is because we're gonna wait until July 4th weekend when it's Well, it's December.00:51:04.880 --> 00:51:05.440


No, no, no.00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:06.400


I'm saying Avenger.00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:07.280


No, December, you're right.00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:08.000


December 20th.00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:08.800


That's right, that's right, right.00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:10.639


So, like they gave me the same explanation.00:51:10.719 --> 00:51:12.000


I have no control over this.00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:23.840


So they have, okay, you turn in the manuscript, we take it to copy editing, we take it to this, we have to go through graphic and cover approval, several renditions of that, then we assign you a publicist, and then we do this.00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:26.480


And originally it was gonna be September, and I go, why December?00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:31.039


And they're like, well, because midterm elections and we don't want to compete with the media for that.00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:31.679


Right, right, right.00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:38.400


So it was super upsetting to me, to be frank, because I spent three Christmases, like I had to balance some things.00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:47.440


One, while I was going through the divorce, you know, because I I have my son the majority of the time over those Christmas holidays, and I want to give him the best Christmas, just as I normally would, right?00:51:47.519 --> 00:51:49.679


Not as a byproduct of being like a Disneyland dad.00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:50.000


Oh, right.00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:51.039


We do the holidays big.00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:52.400


So you'll be on a tour during Christmas.00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:53.840


Yeah, but I also, no, no, no.00:51:53.920 --> 00:51:54.639


Oh, I was writing.00:51:54.719 --> 00:51:55.360


I'd have to write.00:51:55.519 --> 00:51:57.760


No, but now when the book comes out, you're gonna do publicity.00:51:58.079 --> 00:51:58.400


We'll see.00:51:58.559 --> 00:52:06.880


I mean, that I wouldn't imagine that's a smart time to do media, but what I was referencing is they told me you have to have this book done by January 5th, 2026.00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:08.079


And I would say, well, why?00:52:08.239 --> 00:52:10.000


If it's not coming out until September.00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:12.480


And that's when they explain the whole rollout process.00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:14.960


And then they have other authors in their pipeline.00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:15.920


So boom.00:52:16.320 --> 00:52:21.199


Is it like in the movies where they give you in advance or they give you, they pay you in advance and you get a percentage of the stuff?00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:25.280


Yeah, so like conscious coaching, and I wish other authors would talk about this, by the way.00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:28.159


This is I couldn't figure out any of this shit.00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:34.559


I'd try to figure out how uh Stephen King or Ryan Holliday or any of these, nobody talks about this for some reason.00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:36.400


So maybe this will get me blacklisted again.00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:37.760


I think you do well blacklisted.00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:45.360


But kinda conscious coaching, I get a cut of uh like if somebody bought it today from Amazon, I think I get like six bucks, right?00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:46.719


This is different.00:52:46.880 --> 00:52:50.960


They give you an advance, so they give you one payment up front that's like go write the book.00:52:51.119 --> 00:52:56.239


Well, at that time I had five staff and I moved cross country, so that money was gone before I got it.00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:56.800


Right, right.00:52:56.960 --> 00:53:03.039


Um, then they pay you when your first draft, like the actual draft that they accept, like, yes, this is the book.00:53:03.199 --> 00:53:03.840


That's done.00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:05.679


I think I just got that payment.00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:08.159


Mind you, this started in 2021.00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:10.559


So, like, this doesn't equate to minimum wage.00:53:10.719 --> 00:53:10.960


Sure.00:53:11.199 --> 00:53:18.400


Then you get paid the day it comes out and one more payment, and then you never see another red cent unless it out earns its advance.00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:18.639


Wow.00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:20.239


Because the studio's got to recoup their money.00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:25.679


And they say most authors never recoup their advance, which is interesting to me.00:53:26.239 --> 00:53:34.480


So why don't you start uh why don't you ask some of the uh high baller guys that you've trained and women that you've trained when the book comes out to help you talk about it?00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:38.079


For the same reason you probably don't call up celebrities you've interviewed and asked for favors.00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:40.639


Well, I don't have anything to promote.00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:46.400


Well, I mean, I mean, I mean, I happen to know some of the people that you've trained.00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:49.840


I would think if you're like, hey, uh, do the blurb thing.00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:50.159


Yeah.00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:52.639


So well, so that's that's different too.00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:58.159


So conscious coaching, I could get blurbs, like we had a Super Bowl champion, a full colonel in the United States military, other folks.00:53:58.320 --> 00:53:59.119


No, for anti-hero.00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:09.920


I know I'm telling you, for this book, I was told it mainly has to be authors, or if I did go with like celebrities, it has to have be somebody that would so like the actual Josh Brolin thing would be a valid idea.00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:10.239


Right.00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:10.559


Right?00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:20.079


They like, we want authors mainly only that have adjacent content, or if you did go with a media personality, it has to be somebody that it makes a connection.00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:27.360


So somebody that understands or has played a character like that or spoken about that, or they have something that relates, it has to be an aha.00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:29.760


So you can't just go to athletes for this.00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:34.719


I could see motivational speakers taking this book and making it their own, right?00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:35.519


Like I can see totally.00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:36.559


You mean trying to pirate it?00:54:36.639 --> 00:54:38.239


Yeah, well, just like, oh, this is a great idea.00:54:38.320 --> 00:54:38.800


Let me do this.00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:40.000


They can't do that shit now.00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:41.760


I got the intellectual property rights.00:54:41.920 --> 00:54:44.239


You've got anything anti-hero, I own now.00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:45.760


You're Taylor Swift.00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:49.440


Well, originally they wanted the book to be called You Don't Have to Be Liked.00:54:49.679 --> 00:54:50.800


And I said, No.00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:54.239


Like, what's there's nothing intellectual property or unique about that.00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:57.280


And I'm not insinuating I knew more than Penguin Random House.00:54:57.360 --> 00:54:58.000


That's the OG.00:54:58.320 --> 00:54:59.280


Yeah, so they're watching.00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:00.320


That's big time, dude.00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:02.079


And so I like heard of them, and I don't read.00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:02.400


Yeah.00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:04.639


So who do you think I should pitch for the anti-hero advantage?00:55:04.719 --> 00:55:06.639


You know, who's in your black book of secrets there?00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:11.360


I mean, honestly, dude, I mean, I have a friend that knows freaking Brian Cranston.00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:11.599


Okay.00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:13.039


I mean, he's the ultimate anti-hero.00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:15.039


I mean, but he's not, he's Walter White.00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:16.480


Yeah, well, this is what they said.00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:21.280


They'd have to have the distinction of like Walter White makes sense at the beginning, pure anti-hero.00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:21.440


Right.00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:22.960


But you're rooting for him, whatever.00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:25.840


What they were saying, and this was early on when they were scared about the name.00:55:26.079 --> 00:55:26.960


Jason Bateman.00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:27.519


There you go.00:55:27.840 --> 00:55:28.320


Ozark.00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:28.719


There you go.00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:29.039


Right?00:55:29.119 --> 00:55:30.400


Because you're rooting for him the whole time.00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:41.360


Fundamentally, the pitch is simple of what I tell people is we're often told what a good person or is and what and that false selling that to kid, you want to, this is dead serious.00:55:41.519 --> 00:55:41.679


Right.00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:47.360


Selling that idea of like even my six-year-old son being like, Daddy, does this mean I'm not brave?00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:48.719


Does this mean I'm not this?00:55:48.880 --> 00:55:51.519


Because I'm scared and this person's not scared.00:55:51.679 --> 00:55:59.119


I have to have conversations daily with my son of like, buddy, that doesn't mean that you're not this, and that like we talk about what it means to be.00:55:59.360 --> 00:56:01.440


I'm like, don't worry about being a hero.00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:03.039


Those things don't exist.00:56:03.199 --> 00:56:04.719


The perfect people don't exist.00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:14.960


The reason daddy wrote a book, and I dedicated the book to my son, the the first words since you asked are the same moments that may break you are the exact moments that will make you.00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:25.920


I love you always, Daddy, because I'm trying to teach my son that you don't have to live up to this polished, sterile, asepticized, optimized bullshit that society sells you.00:56:26.400 --> 00:56:28.239


Being an anti-hero means something very different.00:56:28.320 --> 00:56:40.800


At its core, it means being adaptable, it means being strategic, it means seeing the big picture, and it means being balanced in who you are, flaws and all of that, and who you actually want to be.00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:48.400


And like that shit tears me up because I'm trying to like, I don't like what we're told societally about, like what I dealt with that.00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:50.000


That was a big part of the hospitalization.00:56:50.079 --> 00:56:53.199


I'm like, you're not this, you're not that, all these fucking labels.00:56:53.440 --> 00:56:55.360


And think about people listening to this right now.00:56:55.440 --> 00:57:02.960


Who listening to this doesn't have something in their past that they feel bad about or they're ashamed of or they wouldn't like this, and what that's supposed to define them?00:57:03.199 --> 00:57:06.400


And so I think that people don't want cheesy superficial shit.00:57:06.639 --> 00:57:10.239


I want something that says, hey, you got some demons and darkness and chaos in you.00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:10.880


That's good.00:57:11.119 --> 00:57:12.000


Let's use it for good.00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:12.880


Yeah, that's good.00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:14.880


You know, some more anti-heroes I was thinking about.00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:21.280


Um uh like uh uh uh uh um the the chef, Gordon Ramsay.00:57:21.440 --> 00:57:22.639


Yeah, didn't your sister run?00:57:23.039 --> 00:57:25.760


Yeah, she she used to run it run his whole, now she runs Mr.00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:26.159


Beast.00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:34.079


So I would be interested in hearing from her because I would imagine like you like her, and I know you want to keep deflecting from you, but I'm your and I'm your friend, so I'm giving you shit about it.00:57:34.320 --> 00:57:36.159


You channel different parts of your personality.00:57:36.320 --> 00:57:37.920


Think about what she has to do.00:57:38.079 --> 00:57:40.000


I would love to follow her for a day.00:57:40.239 --> 00:57:41.280


She's insane.00:57:41.440 --> 00:57:43.920


And watch how, but that's an example of what we're talking about in the book.00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:45.039


That's social agility.00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:47.599


One way with Gordon Ramsay, one way with Mr.00:57:47.679 --> 00:57:48.079


Beast.00:57:48.159 --> 00:57:49.679


There's certain dynamics that probably overlap.00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:51.920


Plus, she's in a in a male-driven business.00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:56.320


Like, I mean, I she's come up with so many brilliant ideas, and then someone takes them.00:57:56.400 --> 00:57:56.639


Yeah.00:57:56.800 --> 00:57:57.840


It's brutal, right?00:57:58.079 --> 00:58:10.000


And that that that is another thing that I told the publisher, and I think we were right about is this book, oddly enough, appeals uh a lot to women because talk about a subset that is always told what they should be or how they have to behave.00:58:10.079 --> 00:58:11.760


And you know how many women are like, fuck that.00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:12.880


You know what I mean?00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:17.119


This is and so, like, and I think people too are tired of motivational rhetoric.00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:22.000


And so that this is kind of written in more of like a way that you have to be okay with a cuss word here and there.00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:23.360


Like, we didn't pull punches with it.00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:29.039


But I would want to meet your, I would love to, if she ever does take your kid to work day, tell her I want to like dress up like a little Dutch boy and like go in a few.00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:33.119


I think everyone wants to know.00:58:33.280 --> 00:58:35.280


I'm getting lots of text messages during this interview.00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:36.400


What happened to your finger?00:58:36.559 --> 00:58:37.360


What happened to my finger?00:58:37.519 --> 00:58:38.480


I see a band-aid on your finger.00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:39.199


Yeah, listen.00:58:39.280 --> 00:58:42.880


Um, like I told my son, I got into a fight with a lot of ninjas the other day.00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:44.079


Um, they weren't expected.00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:45.679


It turns out they held a grudge.00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:48.800


Um, no, there's this was actually from uh deadlifting.00:58:48.880 --> 00:58:50.400


It got cut on a neural.00:58:50.960 --> 00:58:53.039


So let me ask you about such a clown.00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:55.360


You won't even let me ask him a question.00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:56.239


He's so defensive.00:58:56.480 --> 00:58:57.920


I want to talk about longevity and health.00:58:58.400 --> 00:58:59.039


Okay, let's do that.00:58:59.199 --> 00:59:00.079


Is there any what do you do?00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:02.239


Sending your taint is the biggest thing that you've done.00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:02.800


I've done that, dude.00:59:03.920 --> 00:59:05.519


I imagine show me your technique.00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:07.519


I met this guy here, I interviewed him here.00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:08.639


Certified health freak.00:59:08.719 --> 00:59:08.960


Was it?00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:11.280


He drinks his own urine and he goes, he'll sit.00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:12.400


I'll show you my kick that.00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:14.079


Oh, yeah, your brother's talking about sending his taint.00:59:14.239 --> 00:59:17.039


I'll go like this, and then and then the and then the sun goes.00:59:17.119 --> 00:59:18.000


It's really difficult, especially.00:59:18.320 --> 00:59:19.519


Can you show that to Kep and like?00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:20.960


No, it may have come out before.00:59:21.039 --> 00:59:23.199


I've done it in the backyard, but I'm like, I don't want them to.00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:24.480


What does Blake say when you do it?00:59:24.639 --> 00:59:25.920


She freaks out, especially if she comes home out of the way.00:59:26.719 --> 00:59:28.559


She's so forgiving, like she just sees the shit that you do.00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:30.480


Happy birthday, hon.00:59:30.639 --> 00:59:30.800


Yeah.00:59:30.960 --> 00:59:31.840


Oh, it's her birthday today.00:59:31.920 --> 00:59:32.639


Yeah, today's her birthday.00:59:32.800 --> 00:59:34.559


And then you were surprised nobody got to see this because it wasn't.00:59:34.800 --> 00:59:37.840


You were surprised that I knew it was your 30th anniversary coming up instead of coming up.00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:38.400


Yeah, that's wild.00:59:38.480 --> 00:59:38.800


That's wrong.00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:39.840


And wasn't she in sales?00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:40.880


Like she was in radio sales.00:59:41.119 --> 00:59:41.920


She was in radio when I met her.00:59:42.079 --> 00:59:43.119


Is that what you'd call that radio sales?00:59:43.280 --> 00:59:43.440


Radio.00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:45.039


Well, they sell all the commercials here on the radio.00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:45.440


Oh, okay.00:59:45.599 --> 00:59:46.559


She was one of the best.00:59:46.639 --> 00:59:47.440


She's yeah, she's the best.00:59:47.679 --> 00:59:48.559


You do a good job with that too.00:59:48.639 --> 00:59:56.639


You inspire me when I have to do my podcast because you'll do like green mango and you have a perfect, like, if you I love walking around barefoot, I love that in the summer.00:59:56.800 --> 00:59:58.079


Yeah, I don't want to step on bug.00:59:58.239 --> 00:59:59.679


You'll, I'm like, man, John Jay.00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:00.480


Like, I know.01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:01.760


Oh, wait, wait.01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:02.960


Is it I want to try this?01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:03.599


I want to try it.01:00:03.679 --> 01:00:04.320


Can you sit down?01:00:04.480 --> 01:00:06.400


So uh yeah, so sit down.01:00:06.559 --> 01:00:06.800


All right.01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:08.639


So you guys are kind of in the same space.01:00:08.800 --> 01:00:09.119


Okay.01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:11.360


And and uh thank you for being flexible.01:00:11.519 --> 01:00:18.800


So you both have books out, um, and you both are in the uh I I guess the the strength and conditioning space at some point or another.01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:20.239


This is Brett Bartholomew.01:00:20.320 --> 01:00:24.559


He's got a book called Conscious Coaching and a new book coming out called Anti-Hero Advantage.01:00:24.639 --> 01:00:24.880


Yep.01:00:25.119 --> 01:00:28.719


And Joe, your your book is yeah, it's called Life Switch.01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:34.000


And it's uh it's a mindset book, but as you can probably tell, I'm very intense physically too.01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:36.639


But I just, you know, top to bottom, inside and out.01:00:36.719 --> 01:00:40.320


I I think there's a way you can live, and that's either on all the way or off.01:00:41.039 --> 01:00:41.760


I want to hear more about this.01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:42.400


That's what I'm saying.01:00:42.480 --> 01:00:44.639


That's why I thought it's more interesting than I am.01:00:45.360 --> 01:00:47.840


So I thought maybe this is kind of a cool crossover thing.01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:50.960


Now, are you gonna tell him what we were just talking about prior to him walking in?01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:52.239


I forgot what we were talking about.01:00:53.199 --> 01:00:54.880


I'm not gonna bring that one out.01:00:55.360 --> 01:00:57.119


Oh, oh, oh, sunning your taint?01:00:57.280 --> 01:01:01.519


He wanted to ask me about longevity things, and all of a sudden the next conversation goes to him stunning his taint.01:01:01.599 --> 01:01:03.519


You know, this was wait.01:01:03.599 --> 01:01:06.159


Well, this guy's got an incredible sports background.01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:07.039


He's worked with many teams.01:01:07.119 --> 01:01:08.559


He owns he owns a G League team.01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:09.039


Oh right.01:01:09.199 --> 01:01:10.400


So like he's the team.01:01:10.559 --> 01:01:11.599


The Nuggets G League team.01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:11.920


Awesome.01:01:12.079 --> 01:01:15.199


So they're out of Grand Rapids, and they're actually here tomorrow night.01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:20.079


So this all worked out, even though it wasn't the plan, it worked out better than the original plan.01:01:20.239 --> 01:01:21.119


Oh, great, great.01:01:21.280 --> 01:01:23.920


So, but he's coached uh uh or you know.01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:32.079


I was just trying to conditioning coach for 20 years, so predominantly worked with NFL, uh, major and minor league baseball, special forces, and then combat sport athletes.01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:36.400


But then also, right now, the other things you're doing, like with the Rangers, with the Oh, you're talking about now.01:01:36.480 --> 01:01:45.119


Yeah, right now, so I after my first book, now I work in more communication strategy, how to deal with difficult personalities, get more effort out of people.01:01:45.199 --> 01:01:53.519


So I coach coaches, yeah, coaches and leaders in different contexts, specifically how to deal with kind of those power dynamics, as I'm sure you're very aware of.01:01:53.840 --> 01:01:57.679


People that are resistant to change, how to help them overcome those kinds of obstacles.01:01:57.920 --> 01:02:02.239


I love that because I find a lot of coaches are coaching because they had a problem.01:02:02.400 --> 01:02:05.920


They kind of solved it, and all of a sudden they're a coach for other people.01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:06.239


Yeah.01:02:06.400 --> 01:02:15.199


And I feel like you would make sure that the BS meter is not beeping too loudly, making sure that they are an actual coach who has experience outside of dealing with their own stuff.01:02:15.360 --> 01:02:16.480


Yeah, you read that well.01:02:16.639 --> 01:02:16.880


Yeah.01:02:16.960 --> 01:02:22.320


So a lot of our stuff is very, it's non-motivational, you know, jump up and clap your hands.01:02:22.400 --> 01:02:23.440


It's cut the BS.01:02:23.519 --> 01:02:25.440


Let's find out what really drives people.01:02:25.599 --> 01:02:30.719


Let's also normalize a bit of conflict when you're dealing with high performers in any context, you're gonna have that.01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:33.599


And you would get coaches that would just be like, why doesn't this athlete do this?01:02:33.679 --> 01:02:35.039


Or why is the front office like that?01:02:35.119 --> 01:02:38.480


And it's like, well, why inherently do you just expect them to trust you?01:02:38.639 --> 01:02:39.360


You know what I mean?01:02:39.519 --> 01:02:43.039


Like, you we don't, we're not all easy to trust, and you shouldn't be.01:02:43.119 --> 01:02:44.800


You should have a healthy amount of skepticism.01:02:44.960 --> 01:02:49.679


So helping them understand different perspectives of like, you need to ethically influence people.01:02:49.760 --> 01:02:53.039


That's your job as a coach or a leader in any context.01:02:53.280 --> 01:03:00.239


And you just need to spend some more time either building this relationship or figuring out what makes that person tick if you actually want to get anything done.01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:02.079


Yeah, I agree with you a thousand percent.01:03:02.239 --> 01:03:06.320


If you don't understand how someone's wired and how they tick, how can you help them?01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:10.639


Yeah, and so there's a lot to coaching other than just, hey, do this, hey, do that.01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:13.519


Yeah, you know, and throwing darts at the board and seeing what sticks.01:03:13.679 --> 01:03:13.920


Yeah.01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:15.679


Yeah, and he's spot on about go ahead.01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:17.039


No, I'm just saying, see what I mean?01:03:17.119 --> 01:03:17.519


This is great.01:03:17.599 --> 01:03:18.320


This is what I was talking about.01:03:18.400 --> 01:03:19.519


This is what I was hoping would happen.01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:23.280


And so you're also spotted, it's what he was asking me, one of the things that got me into it.01:03:23.360 --> 01:03:27.679


And at one point I just remember thinking, like, okay, am I actually a good coach?01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:33.280


And I went through a quarter, quarter life crisis and started researching like what makes a good coach.01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:46.960


And you find, as you alluded to, a lot of coaches, if not for the reason you mentioned, get into it because, or at least they model their behavior off of people they perceive to be successful coaches or the individual that coached them in the past.01:03:47.199 --> 01:03:51.519


That's not a great model, you know, that assumes a lot of one size fits all, but it's natural.01:03:51.679 --> 01:03:53.679


And then you realize, well, most of them don't get training.01:03:53.840 --> 01:04:02.400


Surgeons will get training for what they do, members of the military will get training, and then you're like, ah, a lot of coaches actually don't get training on how to deal with people, like in strength and conditioning.01:04:02.559 --> 01:04:05.280


All of our certifications were X's and O's based.01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:07.599


You know, and so anyway, but I want to hear more about him.01:04:07.760 --> 01:04:09.199


Pepper in with some of these questions here.01:04:09.360 --> 01:04:11.280


Well, no, I mean, I wanted just you guys cross over that.01:04:11.360 --> 01:04:12.719


I was gonna do a totally different interview with him.01:04:12.880 --> 01:04:13.280


Yeah, that's fine.01:04:13.519 --> 01:04:16.159


I think you guys, because you you speak to groups of people, he speaks, right?01:04:16.400 --> 01:04:24.480


Both of them I'll make sure I'll get your information from the I feel like I jumped onto a treadmill that was already on 10.0, and I just jumped off.01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:26.000


You did a great job into it.01:04:26.079 --> 01:04:26.559


Yeah, why not?01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:29.840


This is but I didn't I foreshare, I said this is what I like to happen.01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:30.639


We're gonna be talking.01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:32.159


He comes in, sit down, let's talk.01:04:32.239 --> 01:04:33.119


I'll wrap up the interview.01:04:33.199 --> 01:04:34.480


But I do want to ask you this real quick.01:04:34.559 --> 01:04:36.320


Um, I should have you guys switch back again.01:04:36.800 --> 01:04:36.960


Really?01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:38.559


No, no, no, no, no, no, no.01:04:38.880 --> 01:04:44.639


Um, because you know, we do um our two foundations, Love Pup and Love Up, and Love Up, we work with a lot of foster kids.01:04:44.800 --> 01:04:46.719


Uh, I think it'd be great if you came and spoke to our foster kids.01:04:46.800 --> 01:04:47.360


I'd be honored.01:04:47.599 --> 01:04:56.559


We every year we do a big graduation for all these kids that are aging out of the foster care system, and to know that you know, just you give them some kind of hope and some kind of those are the ultimate anti-forwards.01:04:56.719 --> 01:04:56.880


Exactly.01:04:57.039 --> 01:04:57.360


I'd be honored.01:04:57.519 --> 01:04:57.920


I know, I know.01:04:58.239 --> 01:04:59.679


And I'm I always enjoy talking to you, man.01:05:00.159 --> 01:05:00.480


You're amazing.01:05:00.559 --> 01:05:01.280


We don't get to do this often.01:05:01.519 --> 01:05:03.119


He's also single, we gotta find him a nice woman.01:05:03.679 --> 01:05:04.639


Some good-looking guy.01:05:04.880 --> 01:05:06.159


We're gonna do a dating segment now.01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:08.639


I hope that you go all of these same places with him.01:05:08.800 --> 01:05:11.119


I hope that you're subject to all of it as well.01:05:11.360 --> 01:05:12.159


Joel, right?01:05:12.320 --> 01:05:12.480


Yes.01:05:12.639 --> 01:05:13.599


All right, pleasure meeting you, Joel.01:05:13.760 --> 01:05:14.079


Joel as well.01:05:14.159 --> 01:05:14.320


Thank you.01:05:14.960 --> 01:05:15.599


Joe or Joel?01:05:15.760 --> 01:05:16.159


Joel.01:05:16.320 --> 01:05:17.199


J-O-E-L.01:05:17.360 --> 01:05:17.519


Yes.01:05:17.840 --> 01:05:18.159


Okay, Joel.01:05:18.719 --> 01:05:18.960


Yeah, yeah.01:05:19.760 --> 01:05:20.079


Okay, okay.01:05:20.159 --> 01:05:20.559


Yeah, yeah, yeah.01:05:26.239 --> 01:05:27.840


Okay, so welcome to our podcast.01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:34.400


This is a little bit different today because this podcast is a spin-off of our radio show.