THE LAWYER WHO LET AI WRITE HIS CASE (AND IT MADE UP FAKE TRIALS)

Welcome And The Learner And Row Jingle

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Okay, so welcome to our podcast. This is a little bit different today because this podcast is a spin-off of our radio show. Our guest is Kevin Rowe from Learner and Row.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Did we get to sing the song?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

I always have a problem singing the song because I always I did I know the jingle. Tell me the jingle and throw the number. Learner and row is the way to go. Come on! That's what I was creating. You got some of it, buddy. So after all these years. But this podcast that we are doing, like, is we might change a name, right? You gotta be somewhere? You might not just rude looking at your watch. No, but I'm trying to do an intro.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Unlike you, I get little notifications. I have to know what they are. Oh, I know. 97,000 emails, you don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

That's why I don't have that one of those watches because of that purpose, by the way. Because you get text messages.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

I actually took my Apple watch off for this because I did not want to be notified, Kevin.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

See? Um so I'm trying to burn calories

Why AI Matters In The Legal System

SPEAKER_01 1:10

here. We're going to uh our podcast, Kevin, is mostly like health, nutrition, but we want to open up to all kinds of stuff, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:16

And Carrie's idea was Oh, I want to talk about the influence of AI on the legal system. Because I know you and I had a little sidebar a couple weeks ago, and you were giving me some things I really never even thought about. Of course, there's a lot of AI influence coming into medicine right now, so I'm in my own little world on how that's gonna impact change. But I think people do not really understand the full reach of how this could change a legal system. So we want you to talk to us about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Yeah, I think to start off with things, uh, I'll talk more in general and then about personal injury, a lot of my opinions on it, because there's a lot of change, I think, coming. Um, you know, with change, there's a lot of hesitation. Uh, even as a business owner myself and my partner, we're worried about how things are gonna be playing out in the future, but you also have to um

From Index Cards To Case Software

SPEAKER_00 2:05

grasp it, you have to just roll with it, learn it. Um, because the old ways of even marketing or the old ways of handling cases are not the same. I mean, I like it when I'm dating myself, but when I first started out, you used to write on a uh six by five card, you know, the client's name, and then the next thing you're supposed to do on the case and put it in there, and then you put it on the date you're supposed to, you know, make that whatever that task was that day. And so when you came to that day, you'd have all your cards for that day and all the tasks you were supposed to do. Rudimentary, we had our computers back then with what IBMs and the green screens. Yes, DOS. You're you were really excited when you uh graduated up to the amber screens. It was really high tech then. Um well things a lot of changed. You know, uh having software CRM case management systems has been um a game changer in in um personal injury field and for all lawyers. It has to do with how you're handling data, um, where data can be located, what kind of reports you can extract with that data. Um, you know, it hasn't even been that long. Maybe maybe 10 years ago, 15 probably 10 years ago, um a new CRM base system for all calls that are coming into a law firm came out.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

What's CRM mean?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

It's basically a case management software. Oh, so handling that gap. But that's my whole point. Back in the day when we went from everything being handwritten and put in the file, everything, you know, if you lose the file, you're done. Yeah, because everything you got in that file is handwritten, it's not backed up in any way. Then moving into the computer era, which is what, 85, 87, um, uh maybe even 90, that you're now have computers that you're starting to store stuff on there. At the beginning, they were just for writing letters, you know, courses. Emails. I think emails, yeah, maybe a little bit, but emails weren't acceptable as a form of communication in the legal field, not at the beginning. Um, so you're writing letters, you know, typing it into them, using a typewriter, because that was the acceptable way. And now you're at least using a Word um software to actually perform those tasks. Um you could save them on a floppy disk and put the disk in the file and you know, keep using that. Um, but people were really scared on how that was gonna happen back then and what that was going to do, and a job's gonna be lost because now we don't need all these different people to do these different things. You know, it's it's now computers are watching and and are excuse me, are are storing all that data. But then you fast forward what 20, 30 years later, and now you got the

Open AI Risks And Fake Case Citations

SPEAKER_00 4:39

AI. We've been talking about AI in general for years, but it seems in the last eight months, at least in the legal field, it has skyrocketed that almost every week there's a new software platform coming out for personal injury lawyers or for lawyers in general. But to use like how?

SPEAKER_01 5:00

So like, hey, I I was in a car accident, help me a case, and it goes boop, it'll just tell you.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

No, so it's well, you unfortunately it does do some of that stuff. And um, what we were talking about earlier is there's different AIs. You have open AI, which is like your chat GPT and all that different stuff, um which is not confidential, correct? Correct. Okay, and it's not necessarily all it's not necessarily correct in the information it's grabbing from, it's open source, so people can put different information on here.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

So I don't know if everybody understands that actually about open AI.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

It's it's whatever you feed the animal, the AI beast, you know, that you're putting the information in, that's what it's taking and learning from. So the prime example in the legal field was that lawyer that was in New York that was responding to a brief using Chat GPT and the AI and information it generated, so it wrote his brief for him.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

What is that bad?

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Well, it's bad if you're not checking the facts of your brief because it started citing cases that didn't exist.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

They weren't real. And and so when he didn't fact check and he sent it in to the court, the court fact-checked and they realized these things don't exist. And it blew up that he used Chat GPT. Well, that's incredible.

AI Intake And 30 Second Record Summaries

SPEAKER_00 6:11

So uh back to just the software in itself, there's lots of new software coming out, and you ask, what are you using it for? Well, you have new software that is for intake, and that's for your initial business calls, leads from either chats, from social media, from phone calls that are coming in and how it tracks all that information. You know, that's software that's coming out right now. We are going on to a new software platform for us. It's been around a little bit, but they've really pushed AI on this platform. Um, it's a closed AI within this legal platform. So they have 5,000 plus law firms. So the 5,000 law firms that are on this platform, they're feeding the beast, the AIBC.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

But how do you guys use it?

SPEAKER_00 6:54

I'm gonna tell you, here's a really cool way. So if you have a deposition and you have a thousand-page medical records, you know, it would typically take a paralegal or a lawyer who's gonna review it to summarize those medical records, it would take three to four days, maybe three days, because you're really you're writing everything, you're typing everything out and and doing all that stuff. Uh, it probably took three days, you know, six hours a day that they're actually doing it. Um AI now can do it in 30 seconds.

SPEAKER_03 7:22

Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

And 30 seconds to the point that it's so accurate that it's pulling out the diagnostic code and it's giving you a hyperlink. Let's just use, you know, the uh traumatic brain injury, TBI that it's looking for, it will group everything that and the page that TBI is mentioned, traumatic brain injury is mentioned. So if you had to go back and there's a certain you wanted a reference in your deposition, or if you were writing uh a brief or something, you want to go back and just click the hyperlink and it'll take you back to the pages. So that's good mentioned. It's great. Oh, AI, I think as a whole, is gonna make law firms, it's gonna make any business.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

I I think people are afraid of it, just like you said about everything else, because it's in the radio business right now. I was just at a big radio convention a couple weeks ago, and the big thing was everyone was scared of AI and they're anti-AI, and and you know, the thing about AI, they there's actually a whole radio station somewhere in Portland, I think, that is just AI. It's a woman interesting DJ that does the whatever. But you can kind of if it's long-form audio, you can tell eventually that it's a computer. Um, but the thing about AI is it doesn't really know humor, so it doesn't really, you know, there's personality traits that it can't do. But I remember people were afraid of compact discs. Sure, sure. People got way afraid of Napster and online music and downloads, especially the artists. And now that's the way music comes out.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Again, it's the change. And I think you're kind of hitting the nail on the head that I think what people are really scared of is AI is gonna make you more efficient.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Whereas one person could handle X amount of files. Now, with the use of AI, that person can probably double, triple. And I'm not saying speaking of in the case.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

So then you'll reduce your staff. That's where people are afraid of.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

That could absolutely sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Oh my god, AI, I'm gonna lose my job.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Yeah, but half the time what we find out is we repurpose those individuals to do another more important job. I mean, I think that's a good idea. I don't know at any point in time where we stand around looking, you know, um, that we have too excess labor right now. So this is a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yeah, no, it looked as a business owner, it's a little scary, but also a great thing. I mean, if it's gonna make you more efficient, if it's gonna make you um more accurate, because at the end of the day, think about this. There was my dad told me this, uh sent me this email let's say 15 or 12, 15 years ago. And you know, Dahmer, Chrysler Dahmer. Um, he's yes, so he wrote the top, what was it, like top 100 businesses um or professions that will not be around by 2035. And of course, legal's in there. And this is this was written 15 years ago, 12 to 15 years ago. And he's saying at that time that IBM Watson, AI, can at that time answer legal questions, you know, 100% faster with more accuracy than a human can. So you're looking at these stats that they have then, and you're like, oh my god, you know, this is happening now, not 2035. I think 2035 is too far down the road. I think you're gonna see some drastic changes.

AI Negotiating Claims And A 9% Model

SPEAKER_00 10:22

You know, I my opinion, because my partner says no, you're off, but my opinion, I think it's gonna be five years or less, will be drastic changes on how personal injury accidents are handled between law firms, and I can even quote that because it may not necessarily be law firms, and insurance companies.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

So you might have AI talking to the insurance companies, AI, and just work it out without any and then hey, here's the result, take it or leave it.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

So we've had this conversation quite a bit that um that's what's gonna happen. I mean, insurance companies want to cut costs. I mean, they're they're f the rates, auto rates in California last year alone or this past year alone went up 54%. Here in Arizona, they're up over 22% and continuing to rise because the costs of they add it all in when they do these things, but like in California, they talk about the natural disasters and and the fires and and homeowners. I mean, they're leaving uh most of the big name insurers are not insuring homes anymore in California, they've left. Um, and you're gonna see that kind of all over because it's too expensive. So when you're talking, if you have an adjuster who's a claims representative who will adjudicate a a case um and try and resolve it in pre-litigation, so before uh a complaint has been filed. If you have an adjuster, you're paying that adjuster X amount of money, anywhere from nowadays, probably $70,000 could be to a supervisor, $150,000 or more. You have that person, and there's multiple people. Like I said, you have the claims adjuster, then you have a property damage adjuster, you have a bodily injury adjuster, you have uh supervisors for those departments. There's a whole bunch of people that are involved. Well, just like you just said, imagine if let's just say I developed an app or an application of some sort that I went on TV and said, hey, our law firm, you know, we're the real discount lawyers. Now I can't say that because there's somebody out there that has a discount lawyer. But what if I said, here's a true discount? We'll take your case for 9%. Whoa. Right now, you know, the average is 33 and a third or 35%, some are doing 30%, um, some are doing even higher. And I just come out there and say, I'll do it for 9%, but really, what is that 9% gonna get you? Well, think about this. If I go ahead and say you want to sign up with me, you're gonna do all the work. So you're gonna upload your, you're gonna upload your medical records, you're gonna upload your pictures, all stuff that's super easy because we're all used to it's all on our phone now, anyways. You know, and the other big thing that's gonna happen, AI is gonna help is with these hospitals and and medical clinics and all these different places that have medical records, it's gonna be easier to obtain all these records. So now, instead of having to go write an authorization, go there, pay 10 bucks or whatever it is to get your records. Now it's all gonna be electronic. It is already electronic, but there's gonna be sourced on how to get them right to your phone. You're gonna try on and upload them to the app. And then when it's all done, you're done treating, you have all your stuff in there, the app will put it in a form that needs to be put in, and then sending it over to the a demand over to the insurance company. And then the insurance company, AI, will then see if it can negotiate a sell.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Now realize so you probably gotta uh approve ahead of time. Do you agree to go AI? Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

This is rudimentary without a doubt. But just in general speaking, I mean, think about this that then you have, I mean, the client's the one who has the authority to do it, accept or or not, and to which way they want to do it. But there's a couple different things that will be taking place here. You know, one thing is let's say there's something in the medical records that shows an experienced attorney that, hey, this shouldn't just go the AI route. So we could be re-cause it's our law firm, be scrubbing medical records independently to see what this client has. And as you're scrubbing, looking for it again, I'm just gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Keyword search of some sort.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Keywords that come out, let's say TBI boom shows up, or ridiculous symptomatology shows up, or something shows up that could be more indicative of substantial injury that is be only being looked at as soft tissue now.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Or yeah, but the computer could be the one that finds the keyword and then feeds it over to you to say, hey, pull this out, look at that.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Then then, and that's it. And then you're turning around going back to that individual. Hey, I know you signed up for 9%, but look, I think at the end of the day, your claim is worth a lot more than you think it is. We think we can help you, and then you have another option. Um, and that could be another option for us to get involved and litigate the case. Now it wouldn't be for 9%, but to litigate the case. Um, and that's one thing I think with AI, AI will enhance the ability to litigate. So, like I just give an example

Where Lawyers Still Matter In Litigation

SPEAKER_00 14:43

of summarizing medical records, um, uh making charts or or diagrams.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

So it's gonna eliminate paralegals. I again you don't want to say that I still feel like I don't want to say it's gonna eliminate really anybody.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

I think it's just increasing efficiency. I mean, if Kevin doesn't get drawn into all these cases, that all cases are important, right? But he doesn't get drawn into the ones that are rudimentary that are easy to settle, and he can focus his time and talent on a case that really has true relevance, you know, to that consumer. I think it enhances the consumer. I think I think it's no different than what we're looking at in medicine with AI. You know, it's not that every case is not important, every diagnosis is not important, but there are certain things that AI does a very efficient job of helping to educate, maybe has even more time to educate than the doctor has time. And then we can pull our time aside, look for those complicated cases that just don't fit any algorithm and spend time helping people get better faster.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Couldn't agree more. And that's really it. Sure, everybody's case is important to them, and it's important to us 100%. But if you just have soft tissue injury, sprains, and strains, and you're done treating after six weeks and and you're back to normal, great, fantastic. But you don't really need us as much as if you have more complex injuries that are down the line, that we actually have to not only make sure the injuries have been diagnosed and they're seeing the proper doctors, and the doctors are um you know treating them correctly. Uh, I shouldn't say uh have you used following the treatment.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Have you personally used AI yet?

SPEAKER_00 16:12

So I have, but on simple stuff, like I was explaining to you. So, like records reviews uh and that, we were amazed that it what it's able to pull out. Because you're talking, I mean, CPT codes, ICD9 codes are all medical coding that helps with diagnosis and billing. All those codes are are super helpful for us.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

I use AI um and I really like it for things like um this guy you know wants to be my my son's high school coach quit. So they need a new high school coach. And a friend of mine says, Hey, could you write me a letter of recommendation? And I'm like, sure. And I'm horrible at writing. So I go to the chat GPT and I literally, it's like I'm talking to a dude. I go, Hey, I need you to write me a short email that talks about this person and what a great person he is. He played basketball overseas. His dad was the first Phoenix Suns. He's a great guy. He's been with these kids since they were a kid. And this AI, within seconds, it wrote the most beautiful no, I copied it, I put his name to Who I May Concern, boom, boom. I sent it to the to the um uh athletic director of the school, then I copied the guy. The guy sent me back and goes, Oh my god. He he doesn't know what's AI. He goes, This made me cry about he will now. Hey Jimmy, that was for you. But Jimmy cried. And he he cried and he said it's unbelievable. And I was like, I could have never done that myself.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Joel, here's something crazy that you other ways that I'm using AI, and it's kind of up in the marketing alley.

Avatars Voice Clones And Marketing Speed

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Um, you know, doing podcasts or doing commercials or radio cuts, you know, we do all these things. I'll come with you, and we'll do you've been with us when we film commercials, TV commercials, and radio spots and all that stuff. It takes a lot of time, um, especially to write them. So you just talked about sure, we've used ChatBT, Chat GPT to write radio scripts or TV scripts. We've definitely used that before. Um, there's a new way it was social media, it just takes up so much time, energy, and effort to do social media clips. So instead, I have an avatar.

unknown 18:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

And my avatar does all the clips.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

A little cartoon avatar or like a human clip.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Meaning it is me.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

And you think it's me, and everybody thinks it's me, but it's not.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Has it already hit?

SPEAKER_00 18:21

So there are some things, and you and you kind of hit on it earlier about voice tones, yeah, kind of stuff. So there's radio spots or excuse me, TV spots out there right now. Now you're not seeing me, you're just hearing my voice because there's graphics over it. And that's not you talking. If you listen, you may be able to, since you know me so well, you'll be able to listen. Hey, that's not that sounds kind of, but it's off. So there's a program.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

I have access to a program like that that we do for the radio show. You can use anybody's voice and put it in there.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

But here's the cool thing about this. Yeah, here's the cool thing about this type of program is now I don't have to spend, you know, 20 minutes or an hour writing up whatever the script is we're gonna say. I don't have to memorize it or do whatever it is. I don't have to act it out because you're not it. Because now what they're enabled to do is, um, and it's probably gonna be used all over China, but um, you have you sit in front of your screen at the office and you have your camera, and they want you to speak and do mannerisms for a minute. So I'm like, hi, the sun is outside, the sky is blue, John Jay's here. How about you? You know, doing a whole bunch of silly things, and then it it's got it. Their algorithms got it, and then he wait about two minutes, and then they go, Here you are. Now you just have to give it a script, and I can change my clothes so I could be in radio.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

I gotta see this.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Oh, that's pretty cool. But it's you, but uh, it's me. And I turned around and did, I'm not gonna tell you the exact words I used, but I did uh an old um ice cube lyric, and it was and it and a Tupac lyric I threw in there, um, and it was hilarious because it's trying to use my voice, because remember, it got my voice from me speaking, um, and it's absolutely off-key, which is probably normal how it would be. But yeah, it's got uh um what did I say? It's like bad boy killers, da-da-da-da-da-da. And it's me saying it on the other end, it's pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

But there's also it's video of you.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

It's video of I gotta see that.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

So here's I see the audio thing is easy.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah, the video thing I can't. No, and that's what the greatest part about it is. Now all I have to do is have a script, and then because you're talking like 15-second spots for TikTok or all these little things you can do. Now I could do 50 in an hour because I'm not doing all I'm doing is typing in the script or uploading the script in the script. Because again, it's not gonna be the greatest content. You know, it's it's not like you know, you're how you're filming and stuff now, but it's content enough for TikTok or Instagram that you're just trying to get out whatever's in that script, talking about new laws or things are changing, or something that's you know in the personal injury realm that people need to know about. Um, and it's it's pretty simple. And I I didn't think of it. I was at a conference in was it May, April or May? And this guy was like, man, it just takes so much time to do all these things. Now I can do a hundred a month, whereas I was doing like eight to ten because it just consumes so much of my time. And we also have practices to handle at the same time. You're trying to handle these practices, law firms, and do this marketing. Let me tell you, it's that's another thing. Glenn and I, we're on the older end of the spectrum. And so trying to get into TikTok or tiki-talkies, I I'm not even on it. So I don't watch, I know my kids are. I know, I know my oldest Taylor, 23, she's on it all the time, telling me what everybody else is doing. Um, I'm just not. I I have so many other things I'd probably rather do with my time. And I think the old man's Facebook takes up a lot of my time and Instagram. So, nah, man, I I I don't, but this saves plenty of time, and I'm telling you, it's pretty great.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

I've used AI. I I did something, I was I wasn't even gonna share the story. I was I was gonna I was thinking about telling the story on the radio, but I can't maybe I can get away with it here. And my wife, Blake, she's here, she doesn't know the story, but like um I don't know if you Guys, my wife and I share memes all the time, back and forth, right? Sending funny memes back and forth. And her back hurt a couple days ago. She's really out and she's like, Oh, like mine. Yeah, yeah, like yours, actually. Yeah, bad. Bad. Um, and so I was upstairs and I went to Chat GPT and I said, Can you make me a meme? And it said, Sure, make you a meme. And I asked the Chat GPT to make a meme that giving oral sex to your husband helps your back. Okay. So the chat GTP chat GPT says that's inappropriate. I can't cross that line. And then I'm like, then I'm like, wait a minute, this is medical. And I'm trying to do all these medical terms, and I can't get it. So it makes a meme. It makes the memes, but it uses different language now because it's not strong enough. So I never sent it to her. But I have the memes, but they're like the anyway, it never worked out. But unlike your back.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

It has never worked out.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

No, the oral sex thing.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

Kevin, that is your own damn fault. It's not.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

No, I'm actually feeling good at your own.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Speaking of your back, let's segue into this since we've spent four hours talking about

Stem Cells Abroad And Why The US Limits Them

SPEAKER_01 23:04

AI. Um still a lot more common though. But what about like I one of the things that Dr. Bordinko and I, or Dr. Kerry and I are into are stem cells. Yes. Right? I mean, they I think we're all going shortly. We've been on trips before to Mexico. What's your take on stem cells? How do you feel about stem cells? And and I mean the kind that you can't get in the United States. And Carrie, I still don't know the right answer. When people ask me why can't we get these here? I still don't know.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Aaron Ross Powell They're I mean they're not FDA approved to have true harvested stem cells from someone other than yourself. You can harvest a stem cell that you have in your bone marrow and reinject it into your body. That's perfectly legal. It's your tissue. But it is illegal or banned in the US, according to our government, to harvest stem cells from another human and put them into you in indications other than like leukemia, lymphomas, blood, what we call blood cancers. And those are very specific types of cells that only come from bone marrow. So that gets really kind of confusing. I'm getting in the weeds.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

It's input. You can extract here and harvest it because is it all right?

SPEAKER_02 24:02

You could, yes, you could do that, but you cannot put it back into someone else who is not the genetic either.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Correct. And that's why you have to do that.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

And that even some people say, oh, well, I kept the umbilical cord from my baby when it was born and they froze it, so I'll just use that. You actually can't do that either. Just because it is your offspring does not mean you have legal rights to it. So it it's, you know, it's something that's been around. I mean, we've been doing stem cells now for 20 years. It's not even new technology. That's what's really scary about this. But it is a banned usage of that biological product. And every you know, doctor, every hospital, they have to follow what the government says. You can't just go around willy-nilly putting things in that don't belong.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

I'm sorry. I'm just curious. What do you what is your take? There just needs to be more studies on the uh effectiveness or anything.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

No, I think we have some really good studies actually out there on the effectiveness. I mean, I believe that it it just gets into turf wars in the medical system. And I mean that's as blatant as you can get, right? It would impact too.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Are we talking about big pharma?

SPEAKER_02 25:02

We might be talking about the trillions or beyond trillions of dollars that big pharma makes because I think the impact points of where it can really decrease the need for future medical care as far as more testing, more surgeries, more pharmaceuticals on a daily basis. I mean, I love giving the example of ulcerative colitis, a very big ticket item for big pharma. Those biologicals can be anywhere between five and fifty thousand dollars a month for the life of the patient. That is a cash cow. There needs to be a better name for it. But if you can turn that off, if you can turn that spend off by giving stem cells, which there's a lot of great data in the UC and Crohn's area, wow. And we've seen people we've seen people, we know firsthand people, I mean, even very respectable GI doctors behind closed doors or will whisper to the patient, I can't say this to you, but it does work, you know, because they don't want to lose their tenure, they don't want to lose their position in their GI department.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

But I think I feel that though that people will tell me, I can get stem cells here, and I'll be like, Yeah, it's your own. No, no, it's not.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Well, they're no, okay. So, first off, the word stem cell is like using the word kleenex for tissue, right? I mean, it's become synonymous with a product that that it is not. People are getting cells that are harvested from other areas, either um different areas of the umbilical cord or from the placenta, uh, and those are what they're getting. That is a different origin cell that does not have the same impact. It does not have the ability to um, I always like to say, kind of grow up and be something different when it's in you. Those cells are already derived, cells that are just gonna work either in muscle tissue because they're already muscle cells. Um I mean, there's just there's so much harvesting, like I said, of um bone marrow, either from the person, which you're not talking about, or that they're deriving cells directly from a post-production product that is not the same as an umbilical cord tissue, which is what we're talking about when we go out of country.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Okay, and we go to Cancun, we go to re-health. I know, I know you talked about this probably before, but I get people, and I'm sure you do too. Well, it's gonna alter your DNA.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Yes. Yeah, that's another great.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

So, how do you feel now that you've done it a few times? Have you done it like three times?

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Yeah, go this will be four. Yeah, I can tell you the one

Reported Stem Cell Benefits And Common Myths

SPEAKER_00 27:25

thing that has made a huge difference in my life. Stem cells is definitely, and I notice it from minute one. Um, I have two young petri dishes at home. Um, one is nine and one just turned six. And they bring home diseases weekly. And um, I was getting sick at least once or twice a month. No doubt. Once or twice a month. And it was all and my wife was not um getting sick ever. And I just figured I'm older, so it's I'm more susceptible to all this stuff. Um soon as we did the first stem cell study, um, I wasn't I wasn't getting sick. Uh and it's been what three times now, every six months, basically.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

But what about like other things? Like when I look at you, you your your face is like what's what's what is more vibrant. Yeah, yeah, like you have a vibe about you that I think wasn't there before.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

That is a beneficial side effect.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Right, it's a side effect.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

When I say skin and hair, you would never tell somebody to go do it for that, but everybody will walk up to you and go, what are you doing? What what product are you using? Your hair looks fuller, it looks healthier, your skin looks better.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

I I'm just saying the biggest thing for me is I haven't been sick in over 20 months. I mean, I've had COVID. I I haven't had it. My wife's had COVID, sleeping right next to me, coughing in my face. Not sick. Not sick. Let me tell you, I've had COVID four times before, you know, even getting stem cells. So um I my kids have had bronchitis, you know, the cold common colds, pneumonia. My wife had, I mean, all these different things that have been around me, and I have not been sick, knock on wood.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Is there, you know, we've talked

Big Settlements And The Human Impact

SPEAKER_01 28:50

about AI, we talked about stem cells. Is there a reason that you felt compelled to not dress up for this podcast today?

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Yeah. I just felt you're gonna get the true version of me. Just felt I'd be here for you, buddy.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Wait, I want to I'm gonna jump all over the place because I want to go to your law firm real quick. In all the years you've been doing it, what's like the biggest settlement Learner Rose ever got? Ah. Are you not allowed to talk about that?

SPEAKER_00 29:10

I we have confidential, but here's the other subject.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Tell me who it is.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

No, no, no, I know. Um single event, because here's a couple different things. So when we go out there and say we are we have collected billions.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Yeah, you do your commercials on the radio, billions and billions for your clients. Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

So when we say that, because there's other firms that cumulative is different, it is cumulative, but we've collected over a billion dollars for our clients just in the last four years. And what I'm not including in that, which some other law firms will include, is our mass tort department collection. What are mass torts? Yes. So the recalls or um the roundup weed killer. So we have a lot of those cases. 3M earplugs for the Iraqi um uh Afghanistan war vets. They these 3M earplugs were defective. Um and so they had injuries.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

You're not including that in your billions?

SPEAKER_00 29:59

I'm not. How come? Because we don't need to. We're focusing on just when we do these commercial cases. Individual cases. We're talking about the car accidents, the slip and falls, those individuals.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

Oh, you're talking about you're not talking about these massive lawsuits for these massive.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

No, but we have in the numbers. Right. We have we're just not including them in our numbers. Like I I think you just probably just did a recent one that has now been, it used to say we've collected a billion dollars for our clients over the last five years. Well, based on last year and what we're doing this year, which is gonna beat last year's numbers pants off, um, is we've collected over a billion dollars in four years now. So it's I mean, we're pretty proud of that. And we're proud of that, you know, the clients were able to, you know, that we're able to do this for them. I mean, I we have plenty of these stories, but why have one story? This lady um comes in and want to talk to me, just say thank you. And it was really sweet. I meet her up front and she goes, I'm getting X amount of money, and oh my God, you don't understand. Um, it's a life changer. And I wanted to know, I want to say thank you, and I wanted to know, can you set me up with a financial advisor? And I'm like, uh, I I mean, I can give you people that we know, but that's kind of up to you and how you want to do it. And that was only one part of her case. And it's not, it's a lot of money, but it's not in the millions by any means. But it's the impact you can have. And I I we have staff meetings every month. I have one on Thursday this week, and I continually tell our staff the same thing and over and over again. In our business, we have the ability to have a positive impact on people every single day because they came to us, trusted us with their case, and to have an outcome that hopefully is just for them. And we'll fight for them. You know, there's other law firms that don't necessarily fight. Um, they're they're paper pushers, they don't have a litigation department. We have 14, 15 attorneys. That's all they do is litigate cases, meaning if it can't get resolved, then we'll move it into litigation and go fight for it.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

That goes back to AI right there, because AI is not gonna replace your ability to litigate.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

That's correct. Litigation's not going anywhere, and that goes back to when I was talking about that list that Chrysler Dalmer said, and one of the professions was was uh legal profession, he said 93, 97% are gonna be obsolete. You have the specialists, so the trademarks or the patent cases, IP stuff like that. You're always gonna need a lawyer, but then you have the litigation. So, litigation, you're always gonna be fighting in a courtroom. I mean, I know right now that there's what didn't Elon Musk just release an AI bot, like an actual what I don't know if it's a not a human, but uh a physical presence. A physical presence. There you go. Um, I mean, George Jesson's right around the corner. I mean, I'm assuming our food's gonna be coming in little packs, and we're already doing the bar as soon as it's gonna be a full meal.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Great, more processed foods.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

What what can you you don't have to say the name, but I'm just curious to the number you got one person, the biggest number you got.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Yeah, so we've got a couple over $10 million. We got uh when you're looking at mass tort stuff, hundreds of millions. Wow. Um, easy.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

And do you still go into court and fight? Or do you not?

SPEAKER_00 32:48

It's almost a full time. Here's the thing I'm on the end of my leg of doing this. I mean, I'm 25 years, I think, roughly into this right now. Well, I've been partners with Clan or working with Clan for 26 years this August, this past August. Pretty crazy when you think about that because two alphas and how are they working together for that long. I've actually been separate offices. We do have separate offices. Um, nah, I think it's just growing and learning each other over time, to be honest with you. Uh, he'll be the first one to tell you there's certain things I do and he does better than I know he does better than me. Um, and then you have those things where you come together, hey man, I really need your help. I really want to hear your side of this, and and so on and so forth. So it's been uh we're sure we've had our ups and downs, but it's been an awesome 26 years. I mean, when I first came out, I wouldn't have thought of this at all. This is what I'd be doing.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

I mean, you can't go anywhere in this town without seeing or hearing about learner and row, you know?

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Not even this town, I mean Nevada.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Yeah, all the things when I landed. Yeah, hopefully, I mean, again, hopefully good stuff. I mean, uh look, you can't make everybody happy, but you try and make as many people happy as you possible.

Giving Back And The Ethics Of Keyword Ads

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Even what you give back to the community, that part blows me away. I don't think anybody competes with that. And I think people try to. Look, it I almost feel other law firms are trying to do stuff because you do it.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

And I wouldn't disagree, right? But that's a good thing. Right. Because if you I you were there, I think one of our maybe 10 years ago at one of our uh one of our golf events, our annual golf events, I was speaking to a bunch of other lawyers that come to our event, and I was like, let's, you know, let's stop taking. As lawyers, we're taking. We want business, we want more, more, more, more. Let's start giving back. And it I don't care if it's in your time, you know, because not everybody's got the opportunities that we have or the resources that we have. But if it's in your time, um, um, get let's give back and help more. So I can't get upset when I see somebody, another law firm saying, oh, you know, doing the exact same things we're doing. Uh that's great. It's helping more people in our community. I'm proud of that. If I had anything to do with them wanting to do that and get out there, I am I'm so happy you don't even know. I think it's the most impressive thing that if I have that ability, I don't know if I do, but if I had that ability to have somebody else want to give their time, get their staff involved, write a check to help others in the community, I think it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Well, also the same line, when you look at the advertising everywhere, I mean, to me, I feel like you started that. Like now, when I see it, whenever I see another bus board or a bus with another law firm on it, I'm like, they're copying you. It irritates the hell out of me. I know I can't do it, but I'm just telling you.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Well, one, we didn't. We're not the originators on it. Um, but uh, yeah, we came, you know, when we first started out, we started out in Las Vegas. I don't know if a lot of people know that. In Las Vegas, um, we weren't the first there either. But there was a niche, one of the big guys back in the day. I had somebody recently just go, you know, there's there's stuff that I don't agree with in marketing. And in my and like in my view, is don't buy other people's names, like keywords, Google keywords you can buy. People buy the term learner and row. Wow. And that's for me, I think it's shady. I mean, how could it not be? So a lot of people don't know. I mean, I I'm assuming you guys here, but a lot of people don't know, especially when you're on your phone and you type in learner and row, the first three that pop up are ads. They say sponsored. Yeah. They didn't always say sponsored, but yeah, they say, and most people, I find it more people that are less tech inclined, or even our old, like my mom, you know, my mom and dad in their age, they don't know. They typed in learner and row, they click the first thing that pops up because the first thing that pops up is not saying it's not learner and row. It's saying, you know, call us, we'll win big, you know, or or voted best.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

And can you fight that or no?

SPEAKER_00 36:18

So we have been, because we again we don't think it's fair. And there's different rules and different different laws and different jurisdictions. Some jurisdictions have says it's it's against the law to do. Um, others and ours being one, we're fighting right now. Um, right now as we speak. And so we'll see how it turns out. And if it's if you're allowed to do it, then so be it. Um, but a gentleman that I, you know, I was friends with goes, you know, well, it's not a big deal because everybody does it, and you did it when you first started out. And that's where I went, um, no, there wasn't the internet when I first started out. Um, we had we had phone books and we'd buy the double trunk or the back of the phone book and put little magnets on the front so you put it on your your refrigerator. No, we didn't do this, and it's not something we do now, even if we had the ability to. Um, it's just I think it lacks integrity and I think it's you know shady. If you're looking for learner and row, then you should be able to get learner and row and not have to fight and sift through to where they're at. You know, if you're looking for personal injury attorney in Phoenix, fair game. All those words are open, fair. But the trademark terms learner and row or one call, that's all, or interact need to check.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

I would think that'd be something that you would be able to win quickly. And ultimately, maybe groundbreaking if no one else is.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

We're fighting it. So we'll see how it turns out.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

But where is it in the case? Like, well, are you in front of a judge? I know a judge, he was just here.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Um, we are actually so we're at the lower court level, and the lower court level actually decided almost wanted to split the baby, and and we said, don't we don't want to split it, we need to know, you know. And and the other side basically even said they go, Yeah, we've gotten cases that people asked for you and give us a list of those amount. Um, so the judge took went that side when he said don't split it, went took their side. We appealed it. We just had um um hearings that took place, I think it was a month and a half ago, two months, maybe three months ago. So we're waiting to see what the appellate court says.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Do you go to a lot of the court cases that learner or represent?

SPEAKER_00 38:11

It really depends. Um if there's something you know good that we have coming on. I mean, you gotta figure 90 95, 96% of the cases settle before, regardless if they didn't settle on pre-litigation, meaning before complaint, they'll settle on mediation, arbitration, you know, they'll settle, they'll resolve. Um, the cases that don't, the other three, four percent that don't, um they may still resolve down the line or right before a jury is picked, um, called for dire. Um a lot of times they settle right on the court steps, basically. Um excuse me. And then if it's a good case, like either I want to see the attorney, I want to see how things you gotta remember, me being in the courtroom can be prejudicial to our client. Remember, we're the advertising guys, people see all over the place. Oh so you can have people that either love or hate advertising, marketing, um, you know, and jury sees that I'm there and this whole thing. It can be, you know, it can be prejudicial. But there are times I've gone in to watch and see what our people do, sit far in the back and just want to see how the jury is, want to see how our attorneys are doing. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

I mean, I let me ask you this. So there's like, I've been watching all these, you know, true crime documentaries and and like this Lacey Peter.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

The worst date ever.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

The worst worst ex ever that one. But there's a there's some of these cases where they know I'm gonna get this lawyer. He's the one that was on the OJ trial, he's the one that helped this murder trial. Garagos. Yeah, Garagos, that guy, right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

You saw that with Scott Peterson.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Yeah, I saw the Scott Peterson one. But are there is there a case that you can talk about that oh, that case? That's the Learn and Row case. Do you mean is there anything that got that big here?

SPEAKER_00 39:45

No, I I mean I don't know if we have anything that's really I mean, I'm just trying to think of the top of my head that's groundbreaking either in law, because that's typically what you're fighting about, is gonna be either a legal issue or a money issue, monetary issue, or both. It can be both.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

Um I but it's not like yo, you saw that that freaking bus that ran into the Walmart truck. Yeah, that was a learn the road case we got, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 40:07

We had a Walmart infringement case that Walmart literally grabbed it was a trademark infringement. This guy is, and I can't get into what it was, but literally, and you see them. Like if you walk into Walmart, they're still using them, but they finally had, I mean, they were getting away with it for years.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Walmart was breaking the law?

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Walmart was infringing. Did you sue Walmart? And we went after Walmart. That's a hard one. Did you win? Yes, we did. Yeah, the guy made out really well.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

Can you imagine the size of the lawyer team on the Walmart?

SPEAKER_00 40:33

They had quite a few, and it, you know, it's just, you know, it's three of us and stuff like that. But it was uh it's a big deal. I mean, I again I can't get into it, but I I'm I would bet you if you walked into Walmart and you looked up at some of the um marketing they have there at stuff they have around there, one of those is probably the ones that they had to pay to use.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

So you won, but they will also run the right to use what they were doing before. And continue to pay for it. Oh, wow. But crazy stuff.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

So, Kevin, who's the legacy? You said you keep referencing that you and Glenn are kind of in the latter years, you've been practicing a really long time. How who's gonna be the next learner row?

SPEAKER_00 41:10

That's interesting. So we are really spending, and you kind of alluded to it. Are you still going according to still the owner in managing a firm, but managing a firm not only in all these different states? It takes a lot of your time. Um, we do a lot of uh uh seminars across the nation about picking up other law firms. So, right now we're looking to acquire law firms. So um, and we're talking about exit strategies for others, about acquiring law firms. Like, we'll take it over for you, especially people that may not have a strategy already planned out, or they want to go do something different. And so we're going across the nation. I fly to Utah tomorrow, and we're there all day talking with a bunch of different law firms.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

So you buy the law firm, keep it the name. 100%. It's already got a brand. I'm not taking it brand.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

I don't want to make it learn and roll, I want to keep it whatever it is.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Meanwhile, there could be also be a learn and roll law firm in that same city.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

There could be 100%. I mean, that world world's better to do it in your home state than your city. It makes it a lot easier to run. I already, you know, that's the thing. We already have staff, and you talked about it earlier, repurposing staff. I mean, at the end of the day, if we continue to grow, I may not have to.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

But do you have to update your legal license to own those or no?

SPEAKER_00 42:13

No, so as long as you're licensed, um, a licensed lawyer, you're you're fine. Like Glenn's not licensed in Arizona. So you are, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

But so I couldn't start a law firm and hire law lawyers to work for me.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

So that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

It's that way in the medical system as well. Only a doctor can buy a doctor's.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Okay, so this is changing.

Arizona ABS Rules And Private Equity Pressure

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Is it 2021? Um, the a the Supreme Court in Arizona came out with um alternate business structures that you can be a non-lawyer um and own a law firm. Now, uh they've changed a lot of different things, and I'm paraphrasing a lot of stuff, but um, you have to go through a background check and everything with the Supreme Court. So if you own more than 10%, they have a full background, you have to answer a bunch of questions and all this different stuff. But um, if you're approved to be ownership of this structure, this entity, this ABS entity, then you can actually own a law firm. So, what did that do? That opens up for private equity, you know, venture capitalists to come in. And so the weird, the weird, I mean, they came in quick. And there's there's they're here. You're seeing law firms that are marketing on TV. You just don't know that they're not local, you know, but they're acting like they are, but they're based out of Florida. Their main offices are in Florida or stuff like that. Um, they're here. Um, and that brought a lot of money and marketing here, and it was all done in the interest or access to justice, which I always thought was kind of a little odd because we're free. You don't pay us unless we collect, unless we win.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

So everyone has access.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

So and there's different features. They're obviously looking at you know, criminal justice. We're now paralegals. If you pass a test and apply, you can actually represent individuals in certain court capacities. Um without being a lawyer. Without being a lawyer.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Some kind of like um PAs, yeah. In our industry. In your industry, right? There's all these people that are doing stuff that aren't doctors.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

You can play doctor. But not have the degree. It's nuts, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:02

It's kind of waters down the MD, waters down the JD. I mean, at the end of the day. But um you're seeing a lot of that stuff happening here, and they're here. They all came here thinking because we're the only state in the entire United States that rip off the band-aid and said, let's just do this. Utah has it like on a sandbox, a case-by-case approach, and they've been doing it for a while like that. But we're the only state just said, Yeah, anybody, we welcome you all. Come on in.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

So that because there are a lot.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

There are. I mean, there's there's I mean, I there I don't know a lot, maybe 90 that there's approved ABS's structures, those those structures that are out there. Um and they got back in. I know a couple that have you know hundreds of millions of dollars in marketing and stuff. But here's the thing the problem that they're having, and it's a problem for it's a problem day one, is if an accident occurs in Nevada, and so the jurisdiction is Nevada, you have a Nevada attorney, that's fine, it's had only case, but you're you're based here. How are you splitting fees with a non-attorney that were derived from an accident and and made from an accident in in Nevada when they don't allow you split fees with an attorney? You may hear in Arizona, but the fees came from an accident in Nevada, that jurisdiction. So you can't bring it back here and split those fees with a non-lawyer. You can only do it in Arizona. So think about that. And like I said, some Utah. So they came rushing out here to be able to do all this stuff. And I like, you know, big thing is when you have that kind of money, you want to do national. National marketing is great because you get cheaper rates, you get more, you reach more people. When you're in a market like ours or California or Nevada, that are Texas, that are really big markets, Atlanta, they these big markets that they have, you're spending a lot of money. The cost per case acquisition to get a case now has gone up 50% in the last four years because of those things, and because and now we're obviously in political season, so they're buying out a lot of different stuff and all that stuff. But it's it costs more to actually get a case nowadays.

Oura Rings Sleep Tools And Nighttime Habits

SPEAKER_01 45:58

You know what let's shift gears a little bit to um medical stuff and health stuff. Because um, because you know, I'm your patient, right? Yes, client, and and and years ago when I signed up with you, you told me to get the aura ring, right? So I have one of the first aura rings. And Kevin has an aura ring, and him and I we're on I'm on that second. You're circles, you're friends. Yeah, I see his, so I look at his sleep score every day.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

I didn't invite you to my circle, Kevin. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

I see his sleep score every day. Last night I took my screw. Oh, I thought you your sleep score to me looked like you died. Yeah, you were at 34.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

It was, yeah, it was bad last night. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:31

You're like the 90 king.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

No, it was I I I was, and I was, and then lately with travel. So I got home late last night from New York, and that kind of got me. I was kind of wired. You know how you like you're really tired on the plane, then you get home, you're like, Oh, I'm gonna put in, I'm gonna put in perfect couple, and let's finish that. Did you finish it? No, but but you get into it and then you're like, oh my god, I'll go watch the next episode. Right. And then next year I know it's one.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

But what's your sleep routine? I wonder if you were the the stuff you take, what Carrie would think of the things you do. Yeah, she's gonna say things that you do to go to sleep.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

I think I think I've already called him Chris.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

Do you know about the stuff that he does?

SPEAKER_02 47:04

The blackout?

SPEAKER_01 47:05

The blackout. That's terrible. I don't know where you got that from.

unknown 47:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

Who would go on air talking about that seven years ago? I stopped taking it.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

Um mentally, it's got if I don't have it now, I went to magnesium.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

You think I got that from her. The powder of the lemon powder, that's the same as blackout, but healthier. So you take both?

SPEAKER_00 47:25

I did last night, trying to get myself to sleep.

SPEAKER_02 47:28

Just turn the TV off.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Yeah, but you used to take frickin' a sleeping pills. Yeah, and then right?

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

I try so many different things right now because the hardest part is not staying asleep. When I go to sleep, I'm good. Um when I'm out, I'm out. Like I did the other night when we're in New York, the first night was horrible sleep. And then uh went to bed like 10 o'clock and I woke up at 8 and I was dead to the world. The battery died. So I didn't get a chance to see the identity.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

Doesn't it kill you when you don't get credit for what you do? I got a 90. I have no way I'm gonna compete against you.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

What's your highest score you ever got? 97. What about 98?

SPEAKER_02 48:04

98.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

No, I got a 97. I don't think I've ever got 98.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

I thought you did.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

Listen, anything over an 88 consistently is a win, okay? It really is. Anything over 88 can you'll get the little crown at anything over 88 consistency, because what it really matters is consistency. If you have 97, 34, 97, 52, that's wrecking your brain. It's wrecking your physiological status. I mean, you just want to be solid and and regular. Let's see. I need to upgrade my. We're not even gonna talk about HRV though. We're not allowed to bring up HRV.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

Let's see what she says about this one. What? Because I then I just recently bought a new thing. Um, my wife says, What are you doing? Mining? So I have this new thing that you put around your head like this.

SPEAKER_02 48:45

Oh, is it the cool band?

SPEAKER_00 48:46

No, no, no, no. It's a and it gives you electrical stimulations to help you fall asleep.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

Oh, I d I I actually don't know about it.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

I'm not gonna say the name of it, I'll tell you after.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

But there's one that came out a couple years ago. It looks just like a little mining thing, and it actually regulated your temperature because they found out that one of the reasons you couldn't fall asleep was if you're too warm specifically around your head, it stopped you from going into deep sleep. So stage three, stage four.

SPEAKER_03 49:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

Um, and then you put this cool, it's called, I don't know if it's called a cool band, but cool band on, and then they found people got deeper sleep because of it, but it was kind of annoying to wear. And when you roll over, you can't. Wait, hold on.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

I need my phone, Amazon. Yeah, I need it here tonight. My my next purchase, I think, that I'm gonna do a tip for my sleep is the um the sleep eight mattresses.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

Yeah, that's getting a lot of great traction. I mean, I have Ouler, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

So I I it came up in my feed, and then I left it, and I didn't I didn't do anything with it. And then I speaking to somebody in New York, and they're like, it's a game changer for me.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

Wait a minute. Can we circle back around? Isn't it got it doesn't have some background AI built into it? Because it learns, yeah, because it learns everything going on through all your devices, and then it manipulates what it does in the next one.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

It's just the cover, right? It's not a full oil. You could just full.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

I've been looking at this thing for about three years now, and I'm getting ready to pull the trigger and say, It's like 25 or 2900 bucks or something like that. Yeah, and you put a cover over your bed and there's a machine next to it, and it keeps it cool, and it wakes you up by it getting warmer.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

I've had that for three years, but it's not that brand. It's the the people who made the brand I have left to go make the eight.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

Well, you said yours is called Uler?

SPEAKER_02 50:18

Uh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

Oh, never heard.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

And I and it does exactly that. It cools you down and then it warms you up so you don't wake up to an alarm clock and not obnoxious eh- So I've been studying my doing my own tests on what I think works.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

And to me, what I think works help you get in the 90s is you have to eat dinner way before you go to sleep.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

A thousand percent. Way before you go to sleep. And I know what else you're gonna say right now, but so um and you're in New York, you don't they don't go to dinner until eight o'clock.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

And then you're talking about by the time you're done, it's 10, and I'm already sitting there going, I don't want dessert, I don't want anything, it's not gonna work mentally. Right. I'm already getting anxiety knowing I'm not gonna sleep. Same. And that's what kills me. And then I think you had a conversation with my daughter via DMs, and you're I told her not to drink the electrolytes.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Oh, I told her to drink electrolytes, yeah. Before bed. So I've been doing that.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

I also told her to stop drinking, or BCAAs, or BCAAs before bed.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

What's that?

SPEAKER_02 51:07

Bring same amino acids.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

Oh, yeah. Wait, do you drink the LMT?

SPEAKER_00 51:10

I do. Because of what I told her? I specifically got it. What flavor? Oh, there were, I don't know, it's red, lime, and da-da-da.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Yeah, those are my favorite. I do I do it every day. And I grab it when I'm at the facility. If you do it the first time. No, there's a different one, too.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

We have well, yeah, we have theirs too. And we also have um DCAAs as well.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

I drink hers throughout the day, and then when I go in the sauna, I drink the LMT.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

The problem is when I fly, I get super dehydrated. Just I'm not drinking it. Yeah. And so last night, again, we didn't get home until late. Uh, I ate on the plane, and that food's horrific. Um, and then by the time I drank the uh LMT? Yeah, by the time I had that, then I had to have my blackout, which was a whole nother bottle of water that I'm drinking with that, along with Maggie's.

SPEAKER_02 51:57

And then you got up four times to urinate.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

Twice.

SPEAKER_02 51:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

Oh, it sucks too.

SPEAKER_02 52:00

Doesn't that suck?

SPEAKER_01 52:01

I said to her, I was like, I keep peeing a lot. She's like, well, welcome to your 50s.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

But I think at the end of the day if you do it, it's like again, I I wasn't, I couldn't spread it out. If you can do it where you start doing your you know, electrolytes at seven o'clock, then for me it would be seven o'clock. I'm done eating at six. Start your day with electrolytes. Yeah, everybody's the first thing I wake up with.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

So, did you know a fun fact

AI Fact Checking And Closing Thoughts

SPEAKER_02 52:25

about AI?

SPEAKER_00 52:26

What's that?

SPEAKER_02 52:27

If you ask it how many R's are in the word strawberry, it will only tell you two.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

So there you go again. Strawberry.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

Don't trust AI.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

AI.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

Always research before Fact check. Fact check, yep. I still can't get over that. There's a P in Raspberry. That's just me. That's your AI. Okay, go ask that one. Raspberry. Raspberry.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

All right. That's a wrap.

SPEAKER_01 52:50

All right. Thank you, Kevin. Learner Row, learn and Row.com. The phone number 877900. Let's go with 977-1900.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

Dude, I don't know why I can't get that. 8771500's Nevada is Las Vegas.

SPEAKER_01 53:05

Well, thank you for your time. Thank you. Okay, so welcome to our podcast. This is a little bit different today because this podcast is a spin-off of our radio show.