JUDGE LYNN TOLER SHARES SHOCKING NEWS

Welcome And A Judge Joins

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Okay, so welcome to our podcast. This is a little bit different today because this podcast is a spin-off of our radio show. Well, Judge, your honor.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

How are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:25

It's great. Great. I'm so grateful to have you here on my podcast.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

It's good to see you again.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Yeah, great to see you. But I I have I there's, you know, the divorce court stuff, but I

Pardon Limits And Pleading The Fifth

SPEAKER_01 0:35

have this, I need answers to something. And since you're a pro, maybe you could help me.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

I'll do the best I can.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Okay. I'm trying to understand because I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I don't understand all this Fauci stuff. Like he's in court, but he's not, it's not court, and he got pardoned and he's still testifying.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Yeah, it's interesting. What has happened is that they've just decided that he's a bad guy. And there are some bad things that have happened if you read and read in his diary and all that kind of stuff. But yes, he's been pardoned. What they're looking to do, I think, I what I think they're looking to do is to get him to uh do something now forward. Like if he lies to Congress, that's not pardoned because the pardon ended on the day it was given. So it doesn't pardon future sins. So if they if they get him, if they purge if he perjures himself, then that's not under under a pardon and he can be prosecuted for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Like when they were asking him, what color is your tie?

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

And he's like, I plead the Fifth Amendment.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

I'm like, And there's also state claims, too. A state may have a claim against them, and the and the president can do you for f federal things. So those are the two reasons why he ended up pleading the way he did.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Oh, I heard he played like 111 times.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

I I heard 150. It doesn't matter after 100, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

In in your years of being a judge, did anyone ever plead the fifth to you?

SPEAKER_03 2:07

No.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

No?

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Never once.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Well, then it brings me to this other trial. By the way, it's like the Fauci thing was like 24 hours. It was all over social media. Now I don't see it anymore. Is it over?

SPEAKER_03 2:16

No, it's not over. The testimony is over, but they're still they're still trying to get at him.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

So they're trying to get at him like the same way, like, you know, like you always hear about Al Capone. He was like a mobster, but they get him on tax evasion.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

So they're trying to do whatever they can to get this guy to stumble.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

Exactly. Because he's been pardoned for what they've already they think is his sins.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Oh, are you following are you into it or not?

SPEAKER_03 2:43

I you can't avoid it. Yeah. You know, so I'm not following it tightly, but I do, I did like the legal implications of it.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

When you walk when you follow it, where do you follow it? Are you on what what news? Like I don't know where to watch the news anymore.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

I don't either. I go to a whole lot of different places. I go to MSN, I go to Yahoo, I go to, I go to Fox, I go to, I go to CNN. You know what I mean? I go everywhere because everybody's got a point of view, and I don't want anybody dictating mine. Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

So isn't that? I just kind of want to go. I wish it was just a place I could go, or it's just it is.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

Yeah, and that yeah, and then that's almost impossible to do.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Okay, now another case that's in the news.

Idaho Murders And Guilty Pleas

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Okay. I know we you know you're famous for divorce court for number one show for 14 years, but this is something else. Because I've had these two legal cases in my brain. The Fauci thing and the other thing is I just finished watching on Netflix the Idaho murders. Did you see that?

SPEAKER_02 3:35

No, I didn't see that. You know that story, right? No, I don't.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Oh man. This happened in 2022 in Idaho. Some guy just massacres four college roommates.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Oh, I do know that. Yes. And he he was he he he claimed uh He said he was guilty. He said he was guilty, but now he's he's coming back on it.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Yes. Okay, so it's a it's three episodes. I finished it last night. And I and and what happens is he pleads guilty, and then they never find out why he did it. Like they never so how come the judge doesn't go, and the judge, like when he goes, How do you plead? He goes, I plead guilty. How come the judge would go, okay, well, how come you didn't well why'd you do it? Like then no one knows why he did it now.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Yeah, you well, legally he's not required to answer that. You know, why'd you do it? Oh, really? You can you can plead and then you can be quiet. I mean, a judge can't force you to uh to talk like that in that circumstance. Oh, so the judge can't say Say, tell me why you did it.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

He could say it, but he didn't.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

He can't say it, but he would Well you gotta watch it. Yeah, you gotta be careful. He's number one on Netflix. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Are you into all that stuff?

SPEAKER_03 4:44

I'm into some of it. I I don't know if that what this says about me. I'm more into serial killers. Oh, yeah. You know, Hew, those guys fascinate me. Hew, yeah. The the uh the the four bodies uh in the bay. He was just convicted, huge dude, like six foot eight.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

No, the bilbo, the given killer in Long Beach. Yeah, I saw that one, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I just saw his house is all creepy looking too.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

Right, and I just saw a new one on Gary Ridgway.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Oh, you are in the dark stuff.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

Oh, I'm into it. My sister's really into dark stuff. She just kind of some of it just kind of the shadow a little falls on me a little bit every once in a while

From Harvard To The Bench

SPEAKER_03 5:26

because she knows it all.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Is she in the legal world too?

SPEAKER_03 5:28

No, she's a neurologist. Oh, wow. Wow she's interested in the mind.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Did she go to Harvard? Uh she went to Dartmouth. And you went to Harvard? Is that intimidating going to Harvard? Was it? It wasn't. Because just talking to you knowing you went to Harvard scares me. Oh, it shouldn't. Well, I don't feel like I have, you know, the big enough words to talk to you.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

Absolutely. I don't use big words.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

You don't? No. You got to use the right word, I hope.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

So how proud are your parents to know that you Oh my parents were over the moon. I mean, you know, one daughter in Dartmouth, one at Harvard, then one goes to law school, one goes to medical school. You know, they, you know, they were mad because I didn't go to medical school, but other than that, they were thrilled.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Congratulations. Thank you. And so then what, you get out of Harvard and then you get a you get a clerk office somewhere?

SPEAKER_03 6:15

No, I went to Penn Law. Oh, University of Penn Law. Yeah. And then I took the bar, went to work in a law firm in Cleveland, Ohio.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

And then how do you go from there to divorce court?

SPEAKER_03 6:26

What happened was I was a lawyer. Someone said that the judge in my district had retired. Do you want to run? I said, sure. I ran. Uh seven people were or eight people were in the race. The night of the election, I won by one vote

How Divorce Court Became TV

SPEAKER_03 6:42

over the guy that was number two. After three recounts, I won by six votes. And I took the job at 34 years old.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

As a judge.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

As a judge.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Well, how do you get on TV?

SPEAKER_03 6:52

I was minding my own business. I really was. I had I had been re-elected for a second term, this time by 80% of the votes, so I was cool. And someone called and said, Hey, we heard you're an interesting judge. We need a judge to take over for Judge Napolitano on power of attorney. Can you do it? And I said, Absolutely not. It's ridiculous. But, you know, a few weeks later, I was in LA and that show didn't go forward. And when but I had a guaranteed contract on that show, I said I couldn't leave because I just got re-elected. And they said, if you if the show doesn't go, we'll pay you out your judicial term. The show lasted four months. They paid me for six years to stay home with my kids because that contract required it. And then just as my money was running out, the Fox and the lady that was doing divorce court fell out, and they needed somebody could hit the ground runner. They called me on a like Tuesday and said, Can you get here Wednesday? I said, No, but I'll get there Friday. And they said, Cool.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

And you were there 14 years?

SPEAKER_03 8:00

And I was there 14 years.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

One of the highest-rated daytime shows of all time.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

It was really up there at one point, but so many new uh court shows came on. You know, it just the the audience got splintered.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Yeah, but all the stuff you do is humongous on social media and your shows, everything.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Yeah, it tends to be. 14 years is a long time. And a lot of people, their mothers like me, their daughters know me, because mama was watching it and there was nothing else on, so she watched it too. So I have a lot of of of the deep tentacles in the community.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

When you were just uh a normal judge, a non-TV judge, did anybody ever plead the fifth then?

SPEAKER_03 8:39

Nope.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Really?

SPEAKER_03 8:40

What about I was a muni judge.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

What's that mean?

SPEAKER_03 8:43

I'm a municipal court judge. The the toughest thing I would do would be a negligent homicide. So I did domestic violence, assault charges. I wasn't with rapists and murderers and and that kind of thing. It was city charges. So it was a smaller court.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

So negligent homicide, is that like uh running over somebody by mistake?

SPEAKER_03 9:03

Yeah, uh, or you know, a girl was driving in a car, she was driving too fast, killed her friend, negligent homicide. That's a case I saw.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

So does that person go to prison?

SPEAKER_03 9:13

Uh the the most I can do I could do would be 18 months because it was an accident. And it was it was pled as a first-degree misdemeanor.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Did you ever look at trying to be be uh like a totally first-degree murder judge?

SPEAKER_03 9:29

No, I was happy where I was because in a municipal court, you might actually do somebody some good. Yeah. You know, in the big boy court, you know, rapists and murderers and all this kind of stuff, they're not gonna change their life. But if you get a 19-year-old for the first time in his first fight or is doing his first thing, you could you you have an opportunity to change things. Saw a lot of domestic violence, and I got domestic violence groups to come in on arraignment day so I could get them in touch with the women that were there. So it was a court where, in a smaller court, I felt I had more a greater ability to change things, make some significant change in somebody's life.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Is there a case ever that sticks with you that you think about from back then? Like I wonder how they're doing.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

There were a few. There was, I did a uh a preliminary hearing on a murder charge. I can do preliminary hearings on murder charges. And uh this guy was in court and his girlfriend was talking to him, and all I could realize was she talked this guy into killing his mother, her mother for her. And it was just the most remarkable thing. And I had it and he was manipulated. I don't think he was that bright. And she was a piece of work. That's all I remember.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

She was a piece of work. In 14 years of divorce court, when people walk in, can you tell? Do you see, oh, this guy's being manipulated or she is being manipulated? Can you tell right away?

SPEAKER_03 10:56

I usually used to think I could do that, but I've been surprised enough now that I don't believe I can, which is good because I want the I want the audience to be as surprised as I am. Right. I like I don't want it to be clear from the beginning. So, and I like to, oh, I see you. You know what I mean? Like I'm finding you as we go through the case, as opposed to coming out saying I know everything.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

In the divorce court shows, is it ever like uh you they're fighting over property? Or is it just and then do you decide who gets what?

SPEAKER_03 11:27

Yeah, that's the whole thing of it, is that I decide who gets the property that is of issue.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Is there anything that was it always anything weird?

SPEAKER_03 11:34

It's been there's been a lot of weird things. Uh I can't remember, but you know, the couch we first had sex on, you know, that kind of thing. It's special to me for that reason. That kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Would you say you're an expert in relationships now? Like, can you tell, like uh like my wife right over there? Her and I have been married 30 years this year. This this 30 years, like in two months, it'll be 30 years.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Like, and then some of the things we just argued on the way here.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

My husband and I were married 34. And um, I consider myself somewhat of an expert. I've seen an awful, awful lot.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Did you guys ever have any big fights? Huge fights? Who? Me and my husband. And your husband, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Not super huge. There was 18 months we couldn't stand each other. I would have given to him to any waiting woman for a dollar and she might have got some change. I just didn't like him. He didn't like me. And we worked through it and we got through it, and then that was maybe a good 15 years before he he passed.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Wow. Wow. Well, we got into a fight on the way here. So just you're a joke.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

I'm just telling your business.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

No, so I have I have my routine before I do an interview. My routine, right? I have a whole routine. Right. That's about two hours before I get here. And on the drive here, it's about a 20-minute drive here. And on the drive here, I sit in silence and I think about you. Right. I think about what I'm gonna talk to you about. Right. But she's she came with me. And the whole way here, she's just talking about like 30 different things. And finally, I'm turning the corner over here. I go, Blake, I need to have silence. I have to think about the questions I'm gonna ask you. Because I would hate to do this interview, and then you go, Boy, that was terrible. He was unprepared. I don't like to take notes. I like to do it all up here. Yeah, right. So yeah So I was just like, you got it. So now I'm like, I'm sitting here talking to you and I'm thinking about the argument I had with her at the red light. So I I asked my audience, so I do a radio show and I asked the radio show, I said, that I was talking to you, and I said, What are some questions I can ask you? Somebody wanted to know what's the funniest fight you ever saw or ever judged on divorce court.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

The funniest fight I ever saw, the most serious one I ever saw was a guy when they they both start, they dropped their watches, you know? Drop their watches. That means they were really gonna go.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Yeah, they were gonna go. And usually it's just but they dropped their watches and we had to have security run in. So that's the one I remember most vividly.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Did it air like that?

SPEAKER_03 13:58

Yeah, she we saw the dropped watches, and Joe, who was a real cop, grabbed the guy immediately. And I asked Joe, I said, Why was did he submit to your grab? He says, He wasn't mad at me. He was mad at the other guy. He says, I know how these guys work.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

When you uh tape a show, did you ever participate in the editing or any of that, or you just you walked off the set and it was up to them?

SPEAKER_03 14:19

There were three years where I had an EP who was executive producer who was how shall I put this? Less than brilliant. And I took to I had to edit all 160 shows every year because she just wouldn't do it right. And so I had to re I had to call an editor, I said, How do I do a first cut edit on a show? And he walked me through it.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

And You mean you were doing like cut here, cut here on the machine?

SPEAKER_03 14:59

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

I wasn't doing it on the machine, I was doing it notes. 115, 120.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

I take that out, take the breath out, take the ah out, you know. Yeah. Just I and I did it for for three years. She couldn't figure out how to get the calls in from the people, so we weren't getting any, you know, and then I had to work with the people. The machine was was was broken, but she couldn't figure it out, so I had to figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Did eventually she get let go?

SPEAKER_03 15:29

Yeah, eventually.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Did you shoot the whole thing in Los Angeles?

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

So did you know? Did you move there?

SPEAKER_03 15:35

No, no, no. I moved here. I was from Ohio and I was commuting from Ohio to LA, which got old.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

And then I said I gotta have some place that has one hour flight, so it was either here or Vegas. Because I could not afford LA. I'm not going out like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Wow. So you would fly to LA from here how often?

SPEAKER_03 15:53

I worked 16 days a year. What?

SPEAKER_01 15:56

So you just tape them non-stop, like four or five episodes a day?

SPEAKER_03 15:59

Oh no, uh 12 episodes away episodes a day.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Didn't your mouth get dry? Did you like it?

SPEAKER_03 16:08

I liked it. I liked that kind that that they used to have like a half hour between shows. Like, nope, I want five minutes. I don't want to go down. I want to go up. Once I'm up, I'm gonna stay up and I want to go bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Do you still have the same energy? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

It's it's been a minute.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Like, what do you do for health and fitness? Because you seem you look great.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Well, thank you. Uh I I used to do stuff all the time. I used to be a dancer. I did taekwondo. I had a good got a black belt in Taekwondo. Uh I played tennis a great deal. Lately, I haven't been doing much. Since my husband passed, I haven't done much of anything. So I gotta get started again. Maybe yoga, Thai cheese, something a little many. Do you drink coffee for my age? Yes, I do. But just one cup in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

That's it. What else? Nothing else? Mm-mm. Well, how long ago did your husband pass? Three years. Oh, three years? Yeah. Because I I interviewed you about a year or so ago, and and then I remember I was watching you on social media, and then I and then there was like nothing. It's like you like disappeared.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

Yeah. Somebody stole my Facebook page. And now I can't get it back because I can't prove I'm me. I can't get another one because I can't prove I'm me. I mean, I would I there would be a way to do it, but it's gonna be onerous, so I'm gonna have to figure that out. But yeah, that happened. And then my Instagram page got taken down because I used to do reposts all the time. I used to love doing reposts.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Right.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

But you could never find the original poster.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

You could go back to somebody else's content.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

Somebody else's content. And you know, you always go back, you know, with credit and all this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

But they finally took that down to because you were posting other people's content, they shut down your Instagram. Do you have one, a new one now?

SPEAKER_03 17:51

I do, but I don't I don't use it very often.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Were you doing your own posting?

SPEAKER_03 17:54

I mean, you were you were You were doing my own posting, but I like reposting other people's stuff because you could put funny music to it, you could talk about it, and then I would have it related to my life.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

It was it it was it was a lot of fun, but just talking.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Okay, did people ever completely surprise you and end up staying together?

SPEAKER_03 18:15

People ended up completely surprising me and and and actually separating. You know what I mean? I mean, a lot of them they come to divorce court, especially in the latter years, they were looking for advice on how to stay together.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

They didn't want to split up.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

They didn't want to split up after after a certain number of years on the whole thing. They thought, well, Lynn Tola gives good advice. Let's go on the show and see how we can, you know what I mean? That kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

So it wasn't like a judge, it was like a therapist.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

A therapist. A bit.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

A bit. It was like a talk show with a robe.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Would you ever move do a a therapist thing?

SPEAKER_03 18:47

I mean, no, because I'm not qualified.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Are you uh done with the judge thing on TV if they came back at you?

SPEAKER_03 18:53

If they came back at me correctly, but I don't think they would because syndication is dying. You know what I mean? It really, really is. Yeah, everything is everything is moving over here.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

So everything is, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:05

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

What's your what's your take on that and your experience in television? Is it just that's just the way it is?

SPEAKER_03 19:09

It's just going it's just this is the way it is.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Is it going to just YouTube or the apps?

SPEAKER_03 19:13

Apps, everything. I I'm a I'm the last person you should ask. You know, I was born in 59. I'm I'm barely hanging on. Do you know what I'm saying? Everything's hooked up and everything, I don't know what, I don't know what's happening.

Relationship Rules That Actually Work

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Well, I had some people, like I said, I was gonna talk to you and they messaged me on my Instagram and on the radio show, and they have look relationship advice. They, what's the biggest mistake happy couples avoid?

SPEAKER_03 19:38

What's the biggest mistake happy couples avoid? Huh. Not being able to have a good conversation. They avoid that that leap into accusation and anger as opposed to that information they convey, they can they don't convey information when they when they argue.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

And I don't know where I got this from. It might have been from one of the therapists we went to, but it was kind of like, okay, do you want me to what Am I solving or am I listening?

SPEAKER_03 20:12

That is the thing. Right. Yeah, yeah, you know, because I poked, I poked my husband on the leg. I need you to listen. I don't leave it up to chance. I tell him this is a listening. You want to solve it.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

You don't like your wife being frustrated or crying or upset. So let me solve it. Let me help you. Here, here's what we can do. Here's the way to look at it. What?

SPEAKER_03 20:32

By listening, you're solving my problem. You are giving me time to vent and and we work things out, hearing it verbally. So if you want to calm us, listen to us. And that is a solve.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

So listen to it, and then is there any response? You just go, oh man, that's too bad. Or do you say Well, it depends.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

If she asks you for advice at the end, give her advice. Or baby, do you want to know what I think? And if she says no, don't get excited about it. Just set up.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Okay. Is there one phrase that immediately tells you that a relationship is in trouble?

SPEAKER_03 21:05

If he loved me, he would know that.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

The ifs, huh?

SPEAKER_03 21:09

Uh-huh. If he loved me, he would like you don't have to talk about it. Love would love should conquer all. And that means you're do you're engaging in fairy tale thinking. And fairy tale thinking does not do well for a marriage.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

So what are some good rules then for relationships?

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Good rules is always uh conversations, all conversations should be airy. There should be a lot of room in them. Because when you say something to me, if I don't sit down and think about it for a second, and then think about my response and think about what I need and what you need and how I can get it to you, and I'm just responding, I'm responding emotionally to you. So I want there to be a lot of room in my a lot of dead air in my arguments. Because that means people are thinking.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

You know that that brings me to cell phones.

Phones Social Media And Performative Fights

SPEAKER_01 21:55

When you think cell phones cause a lot of problems in relationships.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

Oh, are you kidding?

SPEAKER_01 21:59

Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

I mean, it it's it's when I was at first at divorce court, you would hear about my space every once in a while. By the time I ended, everything was about the internet. You know, I he was cheating on the internet, he changed his status, you know, he was right next to me t texting this girl and you know, you need to block her and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It is skewering. And then people are posting, knowing that posting about their relationships in real time, and you don't want to look stupid. So you you you you're you're performative in what you're doing, and then you cause your pro causing problems. You know, whatever goofy brown goofy stuff my husband and I did, we did it in the privacy of our own home. You're not gonna know about it, so I don't have to put on airs.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

I think though, even not the apps, just the phone itself. Like I realize where my wife, and I'm glad she's here, where we disconnect is if either one of us is on our phone while the other one's talking, not available. They're not listening.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

No, not available.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

And things get missed. Remember, I told you that. No, you didn't. And I try to think back of what was happening. So what I'm trying to do is not be on my phone when we're having a company. But now the thing is, I don't have a laptop, I don't have a computer, I do everything on my phone, all my work stuff's on my phone. Like it kills me right now that my notes are on my phone. I wish I would have brought paper notes. I wish I would have brought paper notes because I don't, you know, nowadays you can take notes on your phone in meetings, and I feel like I'm being disrespectful when I take notes in a meeting on my phone.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Yeah, I do. I like paper. I'm I mean, I'm old school. I still like paper. When I do a speech or something, I bring paper notes.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

You do?

SPEAKER_03 23:30

I do.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

What do you think about QR codes now in restaurants when you want to get a menu?

SPEAKER_03 23:34

Oh, I make them give me a menu.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

I know, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:37

I have that guy sit up there and I said, now you can help me through this if you want to, or make it easier on both of us and get me a menu.

Grief Pets And Finding Meaning

SPEAKER_01 23:44

What about living here? What are your favorite restaurants in town?

SPEAKER_03 23:46

My favorite restaurants, oh my. Let's see. Aunch. Yeah, I love enchiladas. I just went there a couple of weeks ago. We had a ball at enchiladas.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

I've been there forever.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

So if you're gonna have, do you make dinner every night? Do you don't go out all the time?

SPEAKER_03 24:09

Uh I cook.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Is it just you?

SPEAKER_03 24:12

It's me and my son, but I usually cook for myself because my son knows better than to eat by cooking. He's strong on DoorDash.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Oh, man, that DoorDash.

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Mama can't cook.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

DoorDash is a killer.

SPEAKER_03 24:23

Oh, it's it's awful.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

I've never, we've never done it. Our kids do it all the time. It's and so Taco Bell, you they bring us food to Taco Bell, and it's like the the $15, $20 delivery fee. He's more than food. Like, just go to Taco Bell.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

Yeah, just get up and go.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

It's yeah. Unbelievable. Do you have any pets?

SPEAKER_03 24:39

Yes, I have. Decker and Zora. Zora is a three-year-old German shepherd, and Decker is a two-year-old hound of some sort.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Yeah, rescues?

SPEAKER_03 24:51

Uh, Zora is a purebred. Decker is a rescue.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Oh. We have my wife and I have a dog rescue.

SPEAKER_03 24:57

Oh, you do?

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

unknown 24:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:59

I should have known that earlier. I when my husband first died, I got I got the first dog I could find because I just needed to have something in the house. That dog was crazy. It was a black mouth cur. Oh. I had it for a year because I felt obligated.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Right.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

But I finally had to take it back because it was too much.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Has a dog, Eric, dogs have been helping you through the the morning process?

SPEAKER_03 25:23

I would be, I would be, I'm an introvert anyway. So I don't tend to go out a great deal. So I need something at home to have something to just remind me that I'm a part of life. You know what I mean? It's easy to forget that. I mean you've been married that long. I mean, I was married to him longer than I was ever single.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Right.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

So it's like I'm a four-legged table with three three legs, and I still feel like I'm functioning at 80%.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Are you in the same house that you were in? Same house.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

Same house.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Is it is it different still?

SPEAKER_03 25:54

Is it that doesn't bother me much. I run into stuff that bothers me, you know, something with his handwriting on it that I didn't expect to see. Or, you know, a picture that I hadn't seen in a while. Or, you know, I just ran into he had his um bracelet with his initials on it, and I had taken it at some point and put it in a special place and forgot, and then I found it today, and I cried about that. You know, it's just it it's it's weird stuff.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Wouldn't that make you think that maybe that's him letting you know, hey, I'm here with you right now?

SPEAKER_03 26:31

There was an incident where I was sitting on the bed and the bed just broke, and I was just sitting there. And then I got up and I went out into the living room, and my TV wasn't working, and it just had a bunch of hearts like lights that were in the thing of hearts. And I know it's probably not anything. I know it probably wasn't him, but I pretend it was because it makes me feel good.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

W why can't it be him?

SPEAKER_03 27:02

I guess I don't know enough to say definitively it was not him, but my education tells me, you know, it probably wasn't. Wishful thinking on my part.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Your Harvard education?

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Well, just all of it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Well, you don't believe in that stuff or not really. I d I I do and I don't. Like with my with my mom, she had brain cancer and she it took her 18 months and she passed away, and she said during the time she was dying, she goes, When I go on, when I move on, she goes, Whenever you see a hummingbird, she goes, That's me.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

That's me.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

And I see we see hummingbirds all the time.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

And then I saw this Oprah episode one time where Oprah was talking about we have to be open to see the signs from the other side. You gotta be willing to listen. And I see stuff all the time now. Like when I see a picture, I have a picture of my mom and dad on my phone, they both pass. And every morning when I I go to work at 3 a.m. And every morning I bring up the picture. I have silence in my car, and I talk to both of them on my way.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Oh, how nice.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

I've been doing that since 2011. Wow. And I'd never miss a day. And I feel so connected to them, it's just my time. It's my time. And I try to look for signs, and I I talk to them about protecting my kids, and my kids got this big thing going on. Can you look out for them? It's I mean, maybe I'm insane, but I it gives me peace.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

If it gives you peace, then you're not insane. You're doing what you need to do, and you're not hurting anybody. You're not, you know what I mean. And who am I to say what the other side can do? Right. I mean, I've never, I've never, I haven't researched it. I don't know anything about it. So who am I to say? My mother believed in ghosts. She told me a very, very clear, detailed story about the one she saw. She says, I've only seen the one, but I talked to her, and that was that.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Was the ghost somebody in her life?

SPEAKER_03 28:48

It was somebody uh when she was in in Chicago, and it was somebody who had died. She had she said she was having conversations with this young lady in the shadows, and the lady would never come in the house. And then my mother talked to my grandmother about it. She said, so and so. And she said, Oh, that was so-and-so's daughter. She died years ago.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Oh, dang. No, that's that's scary. That's I'm dumb myself like, you know.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

And my mother tells that story just like, you know, just like she's going to the grocery store, and she said, I've never seen one since and never seen one before.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

She said, But I look at it like you sound that found that bracelet, your husband's letting you know he's here. Yeah. Hey man, I'm here right now.

SPEAKER_03 29:28

Hey, they could that could be.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Or you do there's so like I somebody told me one time too. I was talking to psychics all the time, getting into that stuff. And there was a guy I saw at the mall from far away, and he looked just like my dad. And I ran up to go look at him. And then he didn't look any like my dad. But the fact that he was there, that was my dad telling me for a second, hey man, I'm here with you to mall. Right. So that's what I mean about I think what Oprah was meaning about opening up and listening to.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

Yeah, no, and be open to new experiences and things you don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

But your mom's story probably would keep me up at night.

SPEAKER_03 30:00

Yeah, no, it was like and she tells it very matter-of fact.

Signs From Loved Ones And Ghost Stories

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Well, I have other I I you know, I I kind of don't want to read these, but because I feel bad. But ooh, what's the bigger relationship killer? Money or sex?

SPEAKER_03 30:13

Ooh. I don't know. Just between money and sex.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

It is a good question.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Can exes really be friends?

SPEAKER_03 30:23

I think so. I've seen it happen.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Who lies more in relationships?

SPEAKER_03 30:26

I have no idea. It depends on the two individuals there.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

What's the biggest predictor of divorce in one word? Ooh, that's a good question, too.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

Disconnection.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Disconnection, right? What's one relationship myth Hollywood has completely gone wrong?

SPEAKER_03 30:40

Soulmates.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

No such thing?

SPEAKER_03 30:42

I don't believe in them.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Done it.

SPEAKER_03 30:45

You don't believe in soulmates? I don't.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Do you believe in love at first sight?

SPEAKER_03 30:47

I don't.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

You and your husband when you first met? Was it a work in progress?

SPEAKER_03 30:51

Well, I knew I wanted him.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Where'd you meet?

SPEAKER_03 30:53

At a calves game. I was um I was a young lawyer and there was a judge there at the Lodge, and I was walking in the Lodge, and she had never met me before, and she said, Hey, my name is Stephanie Tubbs Jones. What's your name? And I said, It's Lynn. She said, Do you have somebody? And I said, No, I don't. And my husband had just gotten a divorce. She said, Let me introduce you to somebody. And she introduced me to him. We spent the evening together out there at the Cavs game, and she took me home and she said, When you two get married, I want to perform the ceremony. And she performed the ceremony two years later. Yeah. She knew.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Are you a Cavs fan?

SPEAKER_03 31:30

I didn't, I've never been to a professional basketball game before. This is this was all new. I was doing it because I was going to the lows with my my my law firm.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

But since then, are you now are you like a LeBron fan?

SPEAKER_03 31:42

No. LeBron, I don't like the name anymore because that was an argument we had. It was um it was a it was a school night, it was a work night, I had two kids, and my husband wanted to go to see a stupid high school game downtown. And I was so mad. Why would I want to go to a high school game? And and he used to have his high school dames downtown in the big arena because everybody wanted to see him. And I was sitting there, and I said, Well, that that Libron person looks pretty good. And she's he goes, That's why we're here. I was like, Well, I don't care. Libron's not gonna fix dinner, that's me.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

So you saw LeBron play in high school? Uh-huh. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

And didn't know who he was. Just just, but my husband wanted to see him.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

So his son goes to UV right now.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

Oh, really? No kidding. My son went to U of A.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Two of our boys go to UV. No kidding. And LeBron was there training yesterday.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

Oh, no kidding.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

Yeah, and it's like all over the news. What? Oh, she wants you want me to tell the story? Tell me the story. So we have three boys.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Uh, they're all like athletes and stuff. Our youngest and oldest go to the University of Arizona.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Our youngest is a manager on the basketball team.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Incredible athlete, but he's 6'1, 130 pounds. He's skinny. Skinny. Yeah. But he's a manager on the team and he gets along great with everybody. The coach of the UBA basketball team has a former player who plays in the NBA for the Sacramento Kings. And that player asked the coach, hey, I need a couple good people to train me over the summer. So he recommended my son. So this NBA player flew my son out to Idaho, got him a one-bedroom apartment, a car, and paid him all summer long to train him an hour, an hour and a half every other day. So the rest of the time, he's off golfing, he's swimming, he's on the court d'alane lake having a great time. Well, my son's favorite player is LeBron. And LeBron was there yesterday. And my son calls me from Idaho going, Today's the worst day of my entire life. Like, why? He goes, Because LeBron was to practice and he showed up and hung out and took pictures of everybody. And I'm like, dude, you're in 72 degrees. You're in the you're in the in the lake. You got it made. You played golf with another NBA player. You got it made. And I go, and you're probably going to meet him later. His son's on the team. Right. Yeah. It was just like, it was just funny, his perspective. Yeah. You know, but but but life is good for for them right now.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Our other son played is a is a grad assistant for the GCU basketball team. He just graduated from Hawaii. He played basketball in college. Now he's on his way to Canada right now. Tall too? He's about the same, but he's thick. Oh, okay. But he doesn't play, he just graduated.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

But enough about me, Judge. Do you get recognized every day?

SPEAKER_03 34:34

Not every day. Well, I don't leave the house every day, so that's part of it. But I get recognized a fair amount.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

A fair amount. And are they cool or do they want pictures?

SPEAKER_03 34:43

Very cool. They want pictures. I and I give them to them because if they didn't enjoy my show, I wouldn't get I wouldn't have gotten paid.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Speaking of enjoying your show, what's the Samuel Jackson story? I heard Samuel Jackson was a fan of yours.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Oh, I was, I was when uh Tyler Perry opened up his his uh his new uh you know studios.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

In Atlanta?

SPEAKER_03 35:05

Yeah, in Atlanta, he had a big party. And so I went to the party because I was at his studio in Atlanta, and uh Samuel L. Jackson walks in and she says, I don't like your new set, I don't like your new bailiff, but I still like you. And just walked off. What the heck? That's all he said.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Are you are you friends with Tyler Perry?

SPEAKER_03 35:25

No, but he we were at his studios. We were the first person to rent out of his studio, so I know him.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

About 14 years being in the entertainment world, whether it's a legal show or not, I mean, did you become friends with certain celebrities?

SPEAKER_03 35:37

Not really, because I did went it went, I flew into LA in the evening, got up at six o'clock in the morning, taped all day, went home, nine o'clock, went to sleep. And the last day, I went straight back to Phoenix.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

So when you shot those 16 days, it was it in a row?

SPEAKER_03 35:54

It would be three days in a row, and then I would get two weeks off, three days in a row, two weeks off, three days in a row, two weeks off, like that.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

What about now? What's what are you doing on YouTube now? Because I heard you got a new type of show.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Well, I'm doing a a show called Judgment Call with uh Dr. Ish, and we we talk to people who have a judgment call to make, and we make the judgment call for them, and then we talk about the reasons we make that judgment call. And uh we used to do together uh marriage boot camp with a lot of the reality stars, and so we're gonna do this now, just judgment call.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Wait, so it's divorce court, but for everything.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

So can you give me an example? Like what happened somebody says like two friends have an issue with something?

SPEAKER_03 36:41

Oh, well, we we were gonna talk about uh people who uh we talked about people who have destination weddings, and

Celebrity Encounters And Judgment Call

SPEAKER_03 36:50

whether or not somebody wanted to go and destinating for $10,000 and the and the and the friend couldn't afford it, you know, what's Oh, so you guys present the scenarios that you have a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

You don't have the actual person there.

SPEAKER_03 37:02

Right. Or we will have them on video or something like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Yeah. So I had this email on my show, and it turned into a huge debate. This woman's getting married, and the ring bearer, she wants to ask her cousin, who's 32, to be the ring bearer. And her her this woman's mom's like, ring bears are supposed to be little kids.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

Oh, that's the new thing, though.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

That's what's that's what I heard.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

These adults, you know, like they have dudes being the flower girl. Yeah. You know, big, you know, dudes doing that, and they have, you know, that's the thing. Adults taking on those kitty roles.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Are your kids married?

SPEAKER_03 37:34

Uh well, we have six boys between us. He had four with his first wife. Three of them are married, and three of them are not.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Wow. So you got grandkids and all that too? Yeah, I do. Wow. Oh, so your your your heart is full. You got a lot going on?

SPEAKER_03 37:51

Not really, because most of my kids don't live anywhere near here.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_03 37:55

You know what I mean? So I'm never close to the grandkids. Yeah, you know, just for holidays and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Are they in Cleveland?

SPEAKER_03 38:02

Uh Chicago, New York, uh North Carolina.

unknown 38:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 38:10

They're all over.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Yeah, I was just thinking, uh, you know, going to Harvard. I want to test this theory out on you. Uh-oh. Did you watch The Odyssey, that movie, The Odyssey?

SPEAKER_03 38:19

I haven't seen it yet. I was getting ready to go. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go see it in the theater.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

Did you read the book?

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Homer's Odyssey, no.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

No, neither did I. But my son, who's 19, read it, thought the movie was fantastic, right? Fantastic. I didn't read it. I thought it was aggressively mid.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

Aggressively mid. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

And and I think I wonder if it's like I'm not smart enough to understand the movie, or because I didn't read it, I don't think it's great. I don't, so I'm just trying to find it.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

But it might just be a matter of personal taste. I like Spider-Man. It wasn't your thing. You know what I mean? It wasn't your thing. I mean, because it's not the kind of show that I tend to go to, you know, a lot of fighting and carrying on. I'd I'm not up for that.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

What's your favorite movie? My favorite movie. Kramer versus Kramer?

unknown 39:09

No.

SPEAKER_03 39:10

Well, one of them is Doubt with Meryl Streep. Oh, I know that one. Wasn't that a great movie?

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Wait a minute. Oh. Why do I know that? It's a courtroom drama.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

No, it's she was a nun.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Well then I don't know that one.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

And uh, and uh she she thought the priest was a child molester, but he she couldn't prove it. And she oh was she right?

SPEAKER_01 39:39

You don't know. Oh, so do you leave it?

SPEAKER_03 39:41

At the end of the movie, you still don't know. Philip Seymour Hoffman was in, oh, it was good.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

Oh, was he the priest?

SPEAKER_03 39:47

Yeah, he was the priest. Oh great movie.

Movies TV Favorites And Farewell

SPEAKER_03 39:50

And aliens.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

Aliens? Aliens. The first one, Mr. Gourny Weaver?

SPEAKER_03 39:54

No, not the first one, the second one.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Oh, aliens. Aliens. Oh, aliens, and then there was aliens and then aliens. You like that one?

SPEAKER_03 40:00

I loved that one.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Loved it. What do you watch TV? When you do watch TV, what are you watching? NYPD Blue. What are you kidding me? Where do you find NYPD blue?

SPEAKER_03 40:10

It's on some channel somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

So you watch normal TV.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

Yeah. I watch the stuff we used to watch back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Yeah, you know, we watched a show the other day, my wife and I. It was yesterday, actually, and we had to sit through the commercials. We haven't done that in a long time. I know, right? It's a whole new experience for you. It's like, whoa, hold on.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

What is this?

SPEAKER_01 40:27

I guess I'll go get something to drink and come back, man. Well, anyway. So doubt and aliens. All right. Very topical. Well, thanks, Judge, for being on my podcast. Well, thank you for having me. I had a whole bunch of other things, but I just don't, I don't like that. That's okay. I gotta be more prepared. If only I would have been able to have a peace of mind on the drive here. I wonder. And that's your cousin. You're hanging out with your cousin all the time? Are you from here? You live here? He just moved here from Chicago. Oh, really? By the way, I'm going to Cleveland Thursday.

SPEAKER_03 40:57

Oh, are you really? What's happening in Cleveland?

SPEAKER_01 41:00

So I won an award last year, and this year I have to present the award.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

Go for the thing.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

And it's in Cleveland. Last year it was in Austin, so I'm going to Cleveland Thursday. Okay. There till Saturday.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

All right.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

But is there any place I should hang out? Any good food I should go to?

SPEAKER_03 41:14

Not that I would know of.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

No?

SPEAKER_03 41:15

Yeah, it's been, I've been out here since 07.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

So you don't go back there?

SPEAKER_03 41:20

Not really. I've been back a couple of times, but it's usually for funerals or something.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

So I want to get the clip on this podcast of you and me talking about Libron.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

Libron.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

I want to get Libron. And maybe I wonder if we can send it to us and see what he says. Oh, come here. Sit down. Come over. Can you hear us?

SPEAKER_03 41:38

Oh, hold on. Sit right here. Judgment Call is on anywhere you can find podcasts.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Oh, on YouTube.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

He's on a screen here, and I'm there.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 41:50

And then we have a third screen for people who are presenting issues.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Oh, okay. Because it sounds so fascinating. Yeah. It's so topical because you know, people are just doing quick things. They want quick answers.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

What do you do about us right now? I think you're an adorable couple. Absolutely. You look good together.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Ask us questions from divorce court.

SPEAKER_03 42:12

Okay. Or nothing. Does she talk too much?

SPEAKER_01 42:17

All right. Probably we should probably stop right there. There, Your Honor. Thank you very much. I object. Oh, wait, I plead the fifth. But there you go. Plead the fifth. Okay, advice of my attorney. I plead the fifth.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

He had to read it from a piece of paper. Because you're supposed to say it exactly.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 42:39

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

So funny.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

Okay, so welcome to our podcast. This is a little bit different today because this podcast is a spin-off of our radio show.