YOU MIGHT BE DRINKING MOLD EVERY MORNING WITHOUT KNOWING!

Welcome And Coffee Confessions

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Okay, so welcome to our podcast. This is a little bit different today because this podcast is a spin-off of our radio show. People give me grief because I say I'm new to the coffee world, but I only drink coffee. I've never had anything else. You never had a lot I'd never put cream in it. I don't know anything. I just drink the black coffee that's usually pretty gross. Right? So it's it's uh I did have some coffee. You know who gave me some coffee recently? Um, and I just had it yesterday, uh is um the heart doctor. You met that guy?

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Yeah, he's a customer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Oh, yeah. I wonder if he got Dr. Pump Dr. Jack. No, no, I've got Dr. Jack, Wilson. Different doctor. Wilson. Yeah, just this cardio coffee. Yes, is his brand. And I had that and it was really good. And I was like, I've never had it. I was like, I'm not a coffee guy, but this tastes because most coffee to me is, you know, I just want to get it down so it does its thing, right? Yeah. But anyway, I'm glad you guys came here.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Well, if you are new to lattes, this will be a great introductory. Vanilla latte, organic, you're gonna love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

So what's in there? What do you what's the is it cream, milk?

SPEAKER_02 1:14

So it is um pasture-raised organic whole milk, some organic vanilla syrup, not too much, and um just our our espresso, organic espresso. Okay, can you handle dairy?

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Yeah, well, yeah, in fact, I'm still I'm I'm still having this like debate about the the milk and the raw milk thing. My son, who's supposed to be here, but he gave me a bunch of questions to ask you. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Um, I was hoping we could meet him.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

He he he was supposed, he had a dentist appointment at two. Oh, I know. Yeah, I know and and he called it and I'm like, I'm like, I'm on, I go, man, why aren't you here? Because he is, he measures his food. He he won't he told me the other day he went and got a cassette player so that he has no EMF coming from anything. So he and he's like, Do you know where I get some cassettes? I don't want to listen to stuff. Like he turns off the red lights at night, you know. As soon as he he lives, he just moved here from Hawaii because he went to school in Hawaii. Um and he saw your movie when he was in Hawaii. And so when he got here, he immediately went to your cafe. That's amazing. In fact, he was like, Dad, do you know there's this place called Firefly Cafe? I go, Yeah, I've been there. That's where the camel milk was. Of course we have camel milk at Firefly. That's awesome. But when he was there the other day, you didn't have the camel milk.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

No, we don't uh right now. We we have bone broth instead. We kind of changed things up in there just to like keep the keep it interesting for the customers.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Well, your movie was really freaking cool, especially since I went to your place, I think November, right? It was it was open then. Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

We're almost a year, so about a year ago.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

My wife had just this is gonna sound right. My wife had just had a hysterectomy and she couldn't go out. And it was time for her to go out, her first trip out. And I was like, there's this coffee shop I want to check out. She goes, Okay, let's go. So we went and she had to walk really slow, and your place was packed, right? And that's where we saw the camel milk. And I was like, What is this? And then we saw the pastries you had, and there was this really nice guy working behind the counter, and I drank my coffee, and then yet there was like two tents out the front door, and I think they were selling beef and something else. I can't remember what else.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Chef's farm, and they do microgreens, they do farm fresh eggs, and now they do these crazy good smash burgers on the weekends.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

They do?

SPEAKER_02 3:23

Yeah, Saturdays and Sundays, if you haven't been. So it's grass-fed beef, uh, sourdough buns. They use their uh homegrown micro homegrown microgreens and they make their own sauce. It's all seed oil-free, and it will change your life.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Will it be there this weekend?

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Yeah. Yeah. Saturdays and Sundays.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Is it packed? Is there a line of people?

SPEAKER_02 3:41

I mean, it's probably about as busy as last time you were.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

I mean, that's probably the healthiest hamburger hamburger you can get, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Yes. And I think literally it's the best tasting burger I think I've ever had.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Well, there's a farmer's market that my son and I go to in Hawaii, and there's a smash burger place, and the freaking line is all the way around. And I don't know what if it's they're doing the stuff you're doing, but I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

I mean, it's obviously their spin on it, but I think the ingredients really matter, and that's like that's what's shining here is they're using the best ingredients, and it just tastes better.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

What island is it? Oh, Oahu. We're gonna have to go to Oahu and investigate.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Yeah, that's a write-off. Let's go. Yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

So wait, so let me tell you, let me it's so I I I have so many questions that might sound stupid, but I just don't know. So it is hold on.

SPEAKER_04 4:25

No, it's 3 p.m. It's stupid question hours. You're good.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Good.

Electrolytes Built For Cramping

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Okay, so so the electrolyte business. That's is that is that's jigsaw? Jigsaw helps and then pickleball.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Pickleball orchard, yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Wait, wait, pickleball what?

SPEAKER_02 4:38

The orchard is our indoor pickleball facility.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

But isn't pickleball also what some of the names of the Oh, the electrolytes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Pickleball cocktail is like the potassium forward one. As a matter of fact, we just renamed it to Potassium Cocktail. I gave you some samples in there.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Oh, instead of pickleball?

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Yeah, it's just the potassium cocktail now.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

So there's actually real pickleball involved here?

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Well, the reason we when we developed that product, we were really heavily like marketing in the pickleball space, the pro pickleball space. So we were like, all these pickleball players are cramping all the time. They're like playing for five hours and they're just going down like flies, especially when it's hot. And we know from being in the nutritional supplement space that when you cramp while you're in the middle of an activity, it's likely because of a potassium deficiency. When you cramp at night, in the middle of the night, you wake up with a Charlie horse, that is magnesium. So we're like, we need a potassium forward electrolyte drink to market to these poor pickleball players that are cramping like crazy.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

So were you already in the supplement space before that? With what? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:38

Yeah. Uh my dad and I started Jigsaw Health in about uh, well, in 2005, so 21 years ago. And we developed Electrolyte Supreme, I would say 2016 pickleball cocktail now called potassium cocktail. We launched that in 2020 and we caught the wave of pickleball about as perfectly as you you could.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

On accident.

SPEAKER_04 5:59

On accident. Like most of our success, it's been on accident, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Well, let me go let me start there with my connection with that. Do you guys know Dr. Carrie Bordinko?

SPEAKER_04 6:09

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Oh, yeah, Dr. Carrie. Yeah, so I'm one of her patients. Oh, awesome. And she's the best. And she has, you know, and and I trained, I work out there every day. I was there today.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

And they she has uh your product for her people to train. And so I've tried all of it and I love it. And so, even to the point where I got like, you know, client of the month or something like that one time. Overachiever. My my gift was a whole bag of your product. I was like, that's how much I love your electrolytes. So it's so crazy that you guys did this movie because I'm so into this stuff. So then it's like, like, so my favorite right now. I go through these kicks, right? My favorite is orange. Orange tastes like tang. I know. It's it's so good.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Takes you right back to childhood. It does.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah. Like I literally, as we speak, I have two in my fridge. I take, I have a big gallon jug and I put two in there, and it's the best thing ever. So that's so funny. And then every night I take your your magnesium drink at night.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

The mag sooth. Magsooth. I can't even remember the name of it.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How much water are you mixing into that? Um, well glass or small glass of water. Okay, that's a good question. Because let me tell you, I've been experimenting because uh I I I get up really early, and as I get older, I tend to pee more now. Uh-huh. So I'm trying to pull back on my pee. So I'm trying not to drink any liquid since after five. Right. The only drink I have is mag smooth. It's mag sooth. And I usually drink that like people drink wine. I used to make it like that. Was my beverage tonight when everyone was talking around? I make the mag smooth and I sit there and drink it lightly. Yeah. Uh so what I started doing is putting a lot less water in it so I don't pee, but I don't know if it does it work better with more water.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

No, no, no. Actually, that's the whole point. Most people will skip over the directions that says uh use two to four ounces. So we, when we do it, it's like two ounces. Um tiny. You can sip on it like you're doing. Totally cool. Uh, we're also working on developing a magso gummy uh so that you basically don't have to take any

Magnesium For Stress And Sleep

SPEAKER_04 8:07

water. And kind of a cool thing that happened about six months ago is we did a clinical trial, a sleep study on MagSooth using Aura Ring and measuring sleep score and basically perceived stress. Uh, there was a, if I recall correctly, a 34% reduction in perceived stress and a 17% increase in uh sleep score when using MagSue. And it kind of makes sense. It's you know, I I like to say magnesium is Mother Nature's original chill pill. Uh, it's like a massage you can swallow. Yo, are any of these lines working on you? Yeah, so I have let me tell you something.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

I have I mean I got more. I have the I I take the to-go packs, I take those when I travel. Yeah, I have the two big, big cylinders. I take two scoops every night, right? And then I mix it, and then it'll, you know, sometimes it goes, sometimes it goes like this, sometimes it doesn't. When I travel, it's cool. I have a I mix it with my toothbrush, the back of my toothbrush.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

I'm always looking for like the coffee stir stick to try to make my maximum in the hotel.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

You you and you mix it, then you can just wash off your not the brussels part, the other part. No, yeah, yeah. Then I chug, and I mean I'm a huge fan of your products. That's amazing, man. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

What a cool like synchronicity that we're gonna make. We're always here for it though.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

But you know, getting back to O-ring, so I have this, I I wear an O-ring, I only wear it at night because not during the day. No, because I it hurts when I lift weights. I lift I work out, so I got the whoop gloves. So I got the whoop. Okay, yeah, and then I got that sleep eight mattress. So you know, I do a radio morning show, so I don't get a lot of sleep. So I'm trying to see what I do everything I can to get the best amount of sleep, right? Yeah, so only once, and it was about a week and a half ago, did I get the same number on all three devices? I got a 91 on all three devices. That's great. And I've been trying, I don't know what I did that night. I've been trying to do everything I did that night the day, and I can't get it back. I can't, but they're all so different.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

So what did you brush your teeth with your left hand instead of your right hand?

SPEAKER_01 10:10

I'm like that. I was like, okay, what did I do? What did I do? So what do you guys you're big fan? What's your best sleep score in the O-ring? Oh man, she's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

I mean, 98, I think, or 97 has been my best.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

My wife, too.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

My average rate stay in the 90s.

SPEAKER_04 10:24

Wow, that's good. I think I'm like an 85 average right now, but I did get an 88 last night.

unknown 10:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Really? Do you like uh do you know what your highest is of all time?

SPEAKER_04 10:33

I mean, I'd say a hundred, but I'd be lying. Yeah, I had yet to see a hundred on the Brian Johnson says he gets a hundred all the time. On the aura ring?

SPEAKER_01 10:41

On I think aura ring or the ores.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

He probably uses a couple things. Yeah. But I liked the aura ring already. I like the aura. So I read this survey about all the sleep devices and which one is the best, right? And for some reason, the whoop and the sleep eight mattress weren't in that survey. What? But they I know it's weird, right? But the the the one device that get does everything the best is the Apple Watch. Uh but the one thing for sleep that's the best is the Aura Ring, is what they said. But overall, it's the Apple Watch. But I don't know why they didn't have the whoop in there. And but anyway, yeah, anyway.

Why They Made Breaking Big Food

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Anyways. So this movie breaking big food. Yeah. How did you hear about it? How did I hear? Oh, you texted me. So our mutual friend Marina. Everyone. Marina, yeah, but Marina, but but it wasn't about the movie. I think I knew I knew that you guys were the pickleball people, I think, or the there was some kind of connection with that. And then when you texted me, hey, here's our movie, I was like, what? Because I love I watched all the I love those movies, those kind of movies, right? Like I watched the the dude they ate the McDonald's. I watched documentary. I went freaking, I went, I went vegan for two years because of the what was it? What the health?

SPEAKER_02 11:49

I know which one you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

It was a food ink. No, I saw that one too, but the one that made me go vegan was I think it was called What the Health.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

I think that's it. And I it sounds familiar, but I I think that happened to a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Yeah, because I saw that's why I didn't watch it. I was like, before I knew that I like not, so I did it. I went vegan for a year and a half, and then it was like it just backfired on me, right? So then so, but you the thing about your movie is I I was at the RFK thing here a year and a half ago, two years ago, and that Callie Means was there and he was speaking. I'd never heard of him before, and I was blown away by that guy. Then I found out about his sister. So you guys have him on your movie, which I thought was really cool.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

He really was the inspiration. It was 2024, maybe around the summertime, and he was starting to kind of do the tour thing where he was like he was on all these different shows and podcasts, and he was explaining chapter and verse how the American food system went rotten. And I had never heard anyone explain it quite the way that he did, the way he like put it all together. And the light bulb went on, and both of us, we were just like, we have to figure out a way to help amplify this message. This is like the most important message for Americans right now, I feel like. I mean, we were just very passionate about it. Um, and we have this incredible creative team in-house that we could like work with to try and bring all this to life.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Um you say your creative team is that the creative team within your company at Jigsaw. So you're like, hey, let's do a movie on this. Is that what happened?

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Funny enough, a couple of years ago we did uh our first documentary, which was a little bit of an experiment, but it turned out really good. It's called Breaking Pickleball, and it was a six uh episode docuseries and super fun. So it was like we kind of just our one and only documentary ever, but really then we joke. Like, I think that was the universe kind of getting us practice for being inspired to do this film.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Were you guys pro pickleballers? Did you get to that level?

SPEAKER_02 13:40

No.

SPEAKER_04 13:41

We sponsored some pro pickleballers. We do uh we we do still play all the time, maybe in our minds. Yeah, in our minds. I mean, you should see us play.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

Uh on the court, you know, we're pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

But you're you're in the pickleball world, right? Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

We sponsor the number one player in the world, Ben Johns. He's been a Jigsaw Health uh sponsored athlete for five years now.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Going on six? Yeah. I have this this buddy of mine, this friend of mine, I've known him for like 20 years. Uh on and off. You know, he was in the he was in the electrical space. He used to have, you know, the one of those places that sells TVs that are like Circuit City or something like that. And then he ended up taking over Apple. He's a big way with Apple. Do you know who I'm talking about yet? Oh, he became a huge pickleball guy. He's like the best pickleball coach, Jack. He ran Apple, and now he moved to where Apple is. Oh, APL or Apple like watches. Yeah, now he's he's been with Apple for like 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Huh.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Jack. I just know him as Jack. But anyways, but he has he had all the people.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

The only Jack I know in pickleball is Jack Sock. And he's a pro tennis. Jack on the pickleball.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

He was like uh here, here when he lived here. Now he lives over in wherever Apple is in like the in Bay Area. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:51

Well, hey I'll I'll bet we know him. If I if I search in my phone the word pickleball, there's like 300 names that pop up.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

He lost a lot of weight. You don't know, you know, he ran he ran all the Apple stores here. Was it Jack B. Nimble? No, no, no, no, no, hold on, hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

I don't remember what the B stood for.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Jack. Hold on, let me see Jack.

SPEAKER_04 15:10

Maybe Brendan. Jack Brendan Nimble? Jack Saber.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Jack Saber.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Saber?

SPEAKER_01 15:14

No, that's not it. Yeah, Jack Saber. This is him.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

I don't know him. Do you know him?

SPEAKER_01 15:22

I'm gonna send him this. Sorry, Jack.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

Sorry, Jack.

SPEAKER_04 15:25

Jack Saber, if you're out there. Uh phone number is 4802.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

So when you decide to do this movie, like do you just have the do you raise funds for it? Do you just put your own money into it? How does that work?

SPEAKER_04 15:39

We had a tax credit from the Arizona State Film Department or Department of Film, I can't remember the exact name of the office. Uh, we got a tax credit to make Breaking Pickleball. And we actually thought we were gonna make Breaking Pickleball Part Two. And so we applied for the credit. We got it again, but we we were sitting around in sort of the summer of 2024 and we felt like we were hitting a bit of a ceiling. We felt quite frankly like some pushback from the universe on Breaking Pickleball Part Two. And that's when Ashley kind of started to put these ideas together. And she's like, What if we made breaking big food? What if we asked Callie to be in a documentary and the pieces started to come together? Why don't you tell about your your health tests that you were taking as well?

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Yeah, kind of coincidentally during this time when all of this idea was kind of starting to formulate and come

Mold Tests And The Clean Coffee Quest

SPEAKER_02 16:34

together. I mean, it was all very, I would say, divinely orchestrated. Like we didn't really know how we were gonna pull off this movie.

SPEAKER_04 16:40

We didn't even know if Kelly was gonna say yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

No, we have some basic ideas around it. And I was actually just doing some health tests of my own on the side and uh got a mycotoxin, like a toxin test basically, and found out that I have four different types of mold that I'm like detoxing from uh from food sources. And so, of course, naturally I start to go down the rabbit hole. Where the heck am I getting this mold from? Um, it was shocking because I'm like, it's just I don't know, just doesn't seem like something that's going to happen to you, right? Like I figure everything's fine, but I didn't feel quite right. Um, so I start doing some research and find out that coffee is one of the bigger offenders. And I'm like a huge coffee fan. Like a couple glasses or a couple of uh cups in the morning and then an afternoon latte. It was like the daily ritual. And so I was like crushed. And I'm like, okay, if this is the problem, we've got to find clean coffee. So, of course, start to order some online, but then I start to get sad because I'm like, I want to go to a cafe, I want to like leave my house for coffee. I enjoy that. Um, and then through my research, there's nothing around here. I couldn't even find an organic coffee shop that had all organic ingredients, and then it just kind of became became apparent like we should open up this a cafe, something that can offer all clean, like I can vet all the ingredients myself. We can bring in raw milk, we can, and as we're like in interviewing people for this documentary, like Good Living Greens in Fountain Hills, Arizona.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Yeah, you guys did a lot of Fountain Hills a lot of love.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

We did, and we actually used to live in Fountain Hills, so it made sense at the time. But we were like, okay, we gotta put the Firefly story in here because it's totally like part of what it's our journey right now, and it's it's it's part of the story, like it's part of the inspiration part.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

The in the pre-production meetings that we were having with our director, Cole Uphouse. Shout out, Cole. Uh, we were talking about like what do we want breaking big food to be? Is this like investigative journalism where we're exploring how the American food system went rotten? And that's like the whole scope of the project. But Ashley and I had this sort of inkling of like, we want there to be something inspirational. We we want to highlight what we're seeing at like Good Living Greens and Fountain Hills, what we're seeing at Inspire Farms and Mesa. And then as we started to realize, wait a second, in Scottsdale, there's not a single coffee shop that is organic ingredients for coffee, organic milk, and organic syrups. You can find one or two, but never all three. And so we're like, well, what if we opened a shop in our building where Jigsaw Health is, right next to where our pickleball courts are, and we'll kind of make that the through line of the documentary because we don't know what we're doing. We might as well film ourselves learning about this process. And so the full title became Breaking Big Food, How the American Food System Went Rotten and How It's Being Revived.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

So when you start it though, and you get like as a concept, are you emailing Callie Means, hey, we want to do this movie? And he like literally responds, you'd have to go through his people.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

No, um, we actually met him uh in person. He um we met him at Consumer Health Summit. It's a group that we belong to here in the valley, and it's health people, health industry people that come together for this event once a year. And so we actually ended up sitting next to him and um were able to get his contact information through the networking uh group that we were in. And so we put together an email and we're like, all right, how does this sound? And then it's like, you know what? He's either gonna say yes or he's not. Hit send.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

Yeah, come to think of it. This is like we would have used AI for this, but this was two years ago, like really pre-AI. And we worked, you know, together. It's like, okay, here's what I think the synopsis should be. When we released the film in January of 2026, it's now available on Apple TV and Amazon Prime Video. The synopsis was almost like the exact same thing that we had pitched to Cali via email a year and a half prior of like how the American food system went rotten and how it's being revived. And sort of this vision that we had of like kind of jumping back and forth between

How Big Tobacco Took Over Food

SPEAKER_04 21:00

Cali explaining how big tobacco started to buy up big food in the 80s.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

That part blew me away. I didn't know that part at all. I wasn't because I was gonna ask you guys what is something you learned doing the documentary that blew you away. But for me, when I was, I was like, Are you freaking kidding me? How is that not bigger news? Yeah, what could go wrong, right? Right.

SPEAKER_04 21:19

You know what's funny? It's like I'm getting goosebumps again, and I already know this, obviously, because we made the film, but you're exactly right. That was the thing that blew us away. Cali explaining that in the 80s, as the Surgeon General was starting to basically shut down Big Tobacco, Big Tobacco said, Well, what are we gonna do with all this money? And 1985, RJ Reynolds bought Nabisco for five billion dollars. 1988, Philip Morris bought craft food for $13 billion. And that's just two examples of big tobacco buying big food. By the mid 90s, big tobacco controlled almost 40% of the American food supply.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Like when you say big tobacco, like who are the CEOs of these companies? Do we know? Like, do anybody I think Lucifer is well.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Yeah, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

I I don't know any names, but because I just wonder, do they know what they're doing? Like there was that documentary, or it was a it I saw a movie and a documentary on the um um uh crisis of opioids or whatever. The Sackler family. Yes, yeah, yeah. And they went after that dude. Yep. And they went after that dude and sued him for billions and billions and then two billion, I think. Yeah, and it's like, so who's that guy for the tobacco and the food business?

SPEAKER_04 22:31

Look, I think so much of history can be explained by the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And as Callie pointed out in our film, processed food was not a thing prior to World War II. That's right. But as Europe was decimated and American farmland was available for feeding Europe, we began to do that. But it's like, okay, we have to preserve this food, we have to give it longer shelf life. So we turn sort of American ingenuity and science and chemistry onto this problem. And we learned that we can do things like, oh, we can turn rapeseed oil into canola oil, and it kind of acts like tallow, it kind of acts like an olive oil, and but it's a lot more shelf stable and it's cheaper. So this stuff that we used to use as an engine lubricant, now we're just gonna throw it in the crackers, and that stuff can sit on a shelf for four years. Holy cow, this is a miracle. So they meant well, of course, yes, and now we're way deep into whoever the you know Mr. Sackler is of you know big tobacco, it's like, well, you know, we've we employ 45,000 people at this company, right? We can't just say, Oh, everything we've been doing is wrong. Everything that we've been doing is hurting Americans. You can't admit that.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

You know, uh um watching the documentary, you start off talking about your health issues.

Thyroid Cancer And Healing Mindset

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Yeah. I was having dinner with a friend of mine who's a doctor, a pretty well-known doctor here, and he says to me, He goes, I gotta tell you something. He says, Two years ago, uh, they did an ultrasound. He goes, and they found this little uh lump on my thyroid and they said we're just gonna watch it's fine. But then two years goes by and it's way bigger. So he had to get everything removed. And so I see he's a doctor, and I sent him your movie. And he goes, he was beside himself. He was like, Thank you so much for sending me this. I can't believe it. And uh he's uh um anyway. Um, so your movie's helping him right now do that. So you did you have you had I think in the beginning you're like, I didn't I had everything removed.

SPEAKER_04 24:32

I didn't want to well now my second case of goosebumps here on your show, John Jay. Um yeah, I talked about my uh in 2014, I was driving home from work and I felt a lump on my throat. About three weeks later, I went to my doctor. He was like, hmm, that could be a thing. And I'm like, all right, just give me the worst case scenario. And he goes, Well, worst case scenario is it's thyroid cancer, and we just have to get it surgically removed, but don't worry, there's thyroid medication that you can use, it's very common, you'll be okay. But of course, all my nervous system heard was you have cancer. Right, right. And it was I don't know if we can curse on this show, but it was fucking horrible. And for us in our 30s, I guess we were, uh, it was this like constant demon on both of our shoulders being like, You have cancer, you have cancer, your mind goes to the worst. Yeah, yeah. And for months I was like throwing up, not because I felt anything. I didn't feel I didn't ever feel anything because I had a lump in my thyroid. I felt something because I had so much overwhelming fear and stress and this like tiger chasing me. Because of the word. Yeah, because of the word. And we got a second opinion, third opinion, fourth opinion. Uh it's a long podcast, so we might as well tell this story where we went to a surgeon that looked like Kramer and kind of acted a little like Kramer, too. And he's like, Yeah, yeah, we cut it out, it's no big deal.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Uh is he a singer? He's like, he's not you're not a singer, are you?

SPEAKER_04 26:10

And actually goes.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

I said, Well, he's a backup singer, so it's fine.

SPEAKER_04 26:14

Which at the time was true because we played in a band together. I played guitar and sang backup. She truly is the singer of the family, but it's so like But it was very insensitive of me in the moment, but I was just went to practical.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

I'm like, the show must go on. He's a backup singer, we can replace. It was horrible. And of course, I'm never gonna live this down.

SPEAKER_04 26:35

And so we eventually did decide to, we found a surgeon that didn't look like Kramer. Uh, and we were like, you know what, let's just take it out because it one one thing that a uh a natural, a naturopathic oncologist told me was the problem with thyroid cancer, it's the good cancer because it's so slow growing, but the problem is it's also slow to die. So any treatments that we use are gonna take a long time for it to react. So take it out. Oh, well, because I was like throwing up almost every day because I just had so much stress and nervousness. See how powerful the mind is? Yes, yes, a hundred percent true. A hundred percent true. Uh in in hindsight, I really wish that I would have focused on my mindset and I would have I mean, I've now become a big fan of meditation. I don't know if you're into Dr. Joe Dispenza at all.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

No, yeah, yeah. He's come up here. Not I mean, his name has come up on this podcast a few times. Yeah, I want to interview him so bad.

SPEAKER_04 27:37

He'd be awesome. Yeah, he is a wizard. He kind of sounds like the wizard in some of his meditations, but really he's put together a scientific justification for meditation that made me think, oh my gosh. It's as simple as if my brain always thinks that I'm running from a tiger, you have cancer. It will never stop and start making the healing chemicals that it can naturally make. Right. Like we hear the phrase that our body is a natural pharmacy. Well, it only does that if it thinks it doesn't have to run from a tiger, if it's not under stress. And I I really have learned, you know, that was 2014. I look back to that time, and I think that health can be sort of simplified, reduced down to four different things. One, your sleep, two, your nutrition, your input, three, your movement, and fourth, your mind, four, your mindset. And I look back at that time and think all four legs of my stool were broken AF. They there was problems in all of those things.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

But you turn it around because I mean here you are and you look like you're in great shape and healthy. And in the movie, a common theme is food is medicine.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

So if if it was 2014 and you know now, if you knew then what you know now, yeah, would you have done something different? Would you outside of the mindset food?

SPEAKER_04 29:04

Well, now what I really believe is that when the body shows signs of what we refer to as disease, it's the body giving a signal to my mind that something is wrong. I'm telling you something. In this sort of modern age, how often do any of us sit there and be still and listen to that inner voice, that inner knowing? And I I know I I didn't in 2014. The only thing I was listening to was fear.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

So you had it, you cut out, and when you cut it out, just like my friend who I was talking to, I was like, What happens? What's life like? He goes, Oh, you just take a pill. Yeah, it is that's simple. He's what he told me, right? It is that simple because I was like stressed for him. Yeah, and then he tells me what pill it is. And I'm like, I take that pill.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

It's uh lavaxothyroxin or whatever it is, or synchroxin, yeah, that way and lyothyrony.

SPEAKER_04 29:56

Yeah, and I think yeah, thankfully, I was able to dial in those two medications really easily, really well. Um, I think that in and and by the way, when they removed oh gosh, this is another part of the the one of the challenges with cancer and thyroid cancer in particular is that they do a biopsy, but then the report comes back as like possible carcinoma. I'm like, what's the word possible in there for? Like, either it is or it isn't. Right. It's possible. Right. Well, when they cut it out, they do actually biopsy it. And they're like, yeah, it was carcinoma, uh, follicular carcinoma. Uh and yeah, it would have probably kept growing unless I learned more about Dr. Joe and learned how to first focus on my mindset. And and, you know, like I said, the other things about nutrition and how often do you meditate? Oh, every day now. In the morning? Like before you start? Yeah, there's a there's a 24-minute uh morning meditation that I do every day. And sometimes I'll meditate while falling asleep at night too. But that morning meditation is like absolutely every day.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

My wife does a morning meditation every morning with a group of people, and they invite people to come and get bigger and bigger and bigger. In fact, they're with my first guests on this podcast were these two gurus from India, and they got this whole thing. They do this whole thing. They started with Tony Robbins, or he was one of the first people, and it's turned into now. My wife said yesterday they had 65 people on the live meditation. Yeah, it's a it's a 10-minute meditation, but it's from these people in India that it's it was it's she does it all the time.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

Can you send us a link?

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Yeah, sure. Yeah, you jump on it. I mean, put it on the show. There's people on there that you probably know on the I mean you guys probably you guys know Ian for spiritual gangster?

SPEAKER_02 31:38

Ian, I don't know him, but spiritual gangster, yeah. I know the brand.

SPEAKER_04 31:42

No, no, no, but it the You know Pardeez? The uh the yoga instructor, yeah. Not not Ian, Anton. Is it Ian or Anton?

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Ian is a spiritual gangster guy that's he's um started the company called Spiritual Gangster.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

Yeah, it's a clothing line. It's a clothing line, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

But he was a yoga teacher and a lawyer, and he's and he's so he's one of the guys. Okay, there's so many people on this podcast on the on this um thing you would you would know you I would guarantee it's it's pretty impressive. Nice.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Well, once you start doing a meditation of any kind and like start experiencing how you feel inside and like how you feel afterwards, even if it's just 10 minutes, it becomes very addicting because you're like, I just feel better. And then you kind of start to miss it. Once you start to get into that routine, you're like, my day just doesn't go as well. Like I just don't feel as good.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Do you do the meditation with them or you don't?

SPEAKER_02 32:28

We do it on our own. Um, typically our morning routine is like we work out, then we sauna, and we each do our meditations while we're in the sauna. So it's kind of a little stack there.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Which kind of sauna, what kind of sauna do you have?

SPEAKER_02 32:38

Uh infrared. It's infrared and um Swedish. Oh, you get the both.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

It's like, oh, it's a combo? Yeah. That's song. What brand is it?

SPEAKER_02 32:46

We had actually a local guy come and kind of build it for us. Oh, that's great. David Saunas. He's fantastic. I would highly recommend him. Um, you can find him on Twitter.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Like, is there really there is.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

I'm not like an expert on it all. I know that they each have their own benefits. Um, like the finish gets a lot hotter, higher temperatures, um, but the infrared can like uh penetrate deeper into the tissues and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Do you do both every time?

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Like can you just turn on the infrared while we're in the hot sauna? The sauna goes up to 195.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

I sauna every day. I sauna before I came here. It's part of my best. My podcast. No, I am in my garage, I have a sauna, and every time I do a podcast, I have to make sure I sauna before my podcast. How long do you go? 20 minutes at 175. That's as high as it goes.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

So pop on your meditation, and all of a sudden you've got a great little sauna.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

That's actually one of the only times I can watch TV.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

So I have to-tv in there just.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

I catch up on my shows. Oh, fair. Although today, it was funny. My my partner Rich, he's in New York right now, and he he was he called me because like what okay, when I'm gonna meet with you guys today, right? I I have a routine I do before I podcast, and it's very dialed down to the minute. So Rich calls me from New York as I'm getting into the sauna, and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna watch my show. But he he bumped, he was had meetings with our higher-ups at iHeartMedia, the bigwigs, the owner, the CEOs of the company, and he's telling me about it. So I take the phone into the sauna.

SPEAKER_03 34:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

So I'm in the sauna with him, and he's talking, he's telling me everything, and it's getting now. I can feel the phone getting really hot. And I'm like, it's gonna turn off. So I pop over the door and I hold my hand out like this, and I'm listening, and I'm looking at see the TV. I'm like, oh no, I just didn't see it. And then but Rich has got huge, all this career stuff happening about the corporate guys and all this stuff we're doing, and they like and they like the podcast and all this stuff. So then all of a sudden I'm like he's telling me something else. All of a sudden the phone just goes, the red thermometer. Yeah, boom, phone's too hot, gone. And I'm like, oh, so I popped it off and I was gonna turn on the TV. I had seven minutes left, and I was like, I'm just gonna meditate. There I just sat there for seven minutes in silence, and I kind of like went over this interview in my head, right? I kind of tried to manifest it and visualize it before it happened. So far, it's going pretty well.